My situation

[notnew]

You post on Socrateaser's board just like here. There are mandatory guidelines you must follow with him.

I can tell you he will give you "advice" that looks very much like the "opinions" that have been posted here by myself and Kent. However, he most likely will have more direction about what needs to be done and when. He also knows his stuff!

Gipsy is not entirely correct. Also, Gipsy did not post a very coherent message. The jest of which I took as an offense to the wisdom I have gained from going through this messed up legal system for over 6 years.

All states have different laws. Abandonment is a real issue and is a LEGAL term. It is important to realize that legal train of thought is not always logical or right, but you have to learn how it works to be able to move in those circles.

Please go to Socrateaser. Please see a lawyer. Please don't let her fool you into signing those papers. Nothing is temporary. You are right about that. Arguing with her without a witness present (preferably a video camera - totally impartial) can lead to trouble.

Her actions have spoken a thousand words. She wonders why can't everyone get along and be nice for the child's sake when she has been the aggressor in these actions. Why wouldn't you feel defensive? She's given you every reason to feel as if she's attacking you! Listen to your instincts on this one and move very carefully.

I am the first one to say, DON"T FOLLOW MY ADVICE - I am NOT giving you legal advice. I am just relaying what I have learned from experience and THE LOSS OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CHILD DUE TO TO MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS MESS. Get legal representation. DON"T agree to any terms that threaten your relationship with your child.

Everyone has something to say about this stuff. You have to do what is best for you and your child. This board is only a place to bounce off your ideas and thoughts with others. Not a legal office.

I hope things work out for the best with you.

[gipsy]

If you two have agreed to Visits on your own . then here's advice like posted On Soc's board , Take a picture of you and the child with the front page of a news paper  , then have that news paper to show the phot graph to prove the date of visits ,
   
And for some really wierd reason Women can be very nasty ,
   So when you post to Soc  ask about  trying mediation ,
  I fired two atty's ,
And got a really good one that told me to file for mediation . And you do that My calling the court and asking if they recomend any one , And here in wash state Most of the time they want to see an effort before you spend the courts time ,
  What this will do is , If she refuses mediation altogether then you file that with the court and ask for your parenting plan and say , You had to file because she would not mediate , I did it and it worked very well and the court signed off on the Parenting plan
   Next I recommend you talk to an atty , But don't hire one yet ,
   And then I recomend that you get a temp parenting plan . And just cross off the issues about who has sole custody , And write in that She CAN NOt move the child away . And you should be striving for half of all holidays half of summer , Spring break , And Xmas ,Your Birthday
   You can battle this out in court and it will cost a lot , But this is what you will wind up with , You have already achieved status quo , The child IS Living with her and the courrt won't be likely to change that ,
  Now about the parenting plan ,  Take this into consideration ,
   Wash state law ,
      If you agree with out the Judge hearing the case then you could later schedule a trial , Because the case was not decided by a Judge , for now  you get to pursue a carreer , And she will get the kid , But The end result is much different .
  Next if you get an atty then she will get an atty and the bitterness will be enhanced , Don't even listen to any one that tells you all about the big battle's ,
   This took a couple year for things to mellow after I did all that ,
   So I would talk to atty's, Don't hire any untill you talk to like Five . And Soc will give you  legall advice , He is very good , Just make a great consideration to these facts .
    1 You have in a sense already given her custody.
     2 No Matter how you slice it at this stge you don't want to spend your tuition on a Battle when you will be very likely to get a parenting plan and a child support order in the end no Matter how much you spend ,
    So For what I see , Try to agree to a plan that doesn't determine sole custody And  Agree to Every other weekend and the above listed ;
   The advantage of a parenting plan is , If She agrees Then she can't claim Abandonement , the issue is over ,
  She is threatening to get you to sign , So Just add to the parenting plan what you want and XXXX off what you disagree with and sign it ,
   Of course after some legal advice , Then Say I signed and hand it to her , And she  sounds like she will Get upset , And that when you negotiate , But tell her if it's temporary then leave out the issue of sole custody , And say she is the care taker and has certain rights etc ,
   Thats basically what Mine say's any way .
   Again before you sign any thing or admit to any thing or do any thing at least get legal advice , And don't just hire some atty that talks a story about your rights and want's a deposit ,
   Get an atty that tells you about what you get in the area you are in and what a decent parenting plan is ,
   Remmember there is a lot of leah way in parenting plans , I had a friend that got the child every day before school, because mom worked day's and he worked nights ,
   Find out what the court faors in your area , And remmember it's bunk but this is the deal and you are going your way's so you can do it with a big battle , Or settle ,
   I had to do the big battle Because she had a Lot of money from her parent's , But in the end My  Third and very good atty said . All her money doesn't matter just get this in a trial and have a Guardian ad Litem report , And it will end ,
    This will go over way better without a court process , And you two will get along much better if some Money grubbung atty doesn't fuel the fire , So if you get an atyy be sure to tell them on the interview , You don't want to fuel it , you want it settled
   People on here can say they are offended etc  I don;t care most of this type of thing is simple , Just atty's make a lot of money to complicate your life ,
  Again I am NOT an atty And these are just some thoughts after my case is done
   Now All said, go to Soc's board and before you even post a question sit a read other peoples questions , And get a picture of how different the cases are , And how to number your questions

[notnew]

Gipsy,

In my state, you gon't get to mediation until you file and appear at the first hearing, then mediation is ordered as part of the case management plan. Your state may be different and the original posters state may be different as well.

Being that you stated in your earlier posting that people on here shouldn't be giving advice, I wonder why you offer so much "advice" in this post. Every case is not the same. You said that before. However, from our cumutalive experience here on this board, you must agree that being able to maintain a relationship with your child is more often than not a battle. This board was established so that we could have an outlet to vent our frustrations and a place to exchange stories, gain insight, and get ideas on how to handle things that are happening in our cases. While Socrateaser is an invaluable resource and has help many of us tremendously, the other posting boards can offer valuable assistance and support as well. I do agree that this poster should ask Soc for his view.

The poster got excellent information from both myself and Kent. Also, many of the things you posted were good ideas, suggestions, experiences of your own. Personally, I try to give objective opinions based on my experience and observations of others. I try to let people know from the start that they are in a difficult time of life and every move is crucial because you will end up living with the things that get set up in the early stages of these types of issues. Not every "if" happens that I try to cover, but it is always good to get information on these "if's" before they happen because usually, information gained after the fact is too late to make a difference.


He has NOT given her custody by simply allowing the child to live with her after he left. However, you are correct in the thought that this is the established arrangement and the court will most likely go with it if both parent's agree. Abandonment is a LEGAL term and we all need to come to that understanding. Arguing that he is still talking to his wife, seeing his child, and paying to take care of her is moot. He left the marital home and that is abandonment - meaning that he ended the relationship. It does not matter that he says he left because she asked him to. She may or may not admit to that. If she's talking to her lawyer, then most likely she will deny it. The court does not care about he said/she said. The facts are what will stand. That is how it is so easy to make wrong look right in these matters. There are no disinterested parties to be able to provide testimony so everything is your word against hers or heresay unless you get an expert witness to testify and that is someone you paid to testify on your behalf. I believe in family law there is most likely a billion dollar scheme going on where "expert" witness's are making a bundle and screwing up people's lives royally. It should be a regulated practice.

He should never agree to giving her sole custody and the fact that she has asked for it speaks volumes about her intentions. Obviously, you aren't stuck in a sole custody situation or you would be able to speak from experience. If she is unwilling to agree to joint custody (what it seems like), then he has no choice but to take it to court.

The fact that she is being difficult about establishing a shared parenting plan, regular parenting time for both parents, and the other issues that have been raised tell me without a doubt that he needs to act quickly to protect himself. Yes, women can get nasty. The court systems in place allow these types of women to legally steal your child and much more from you. If you get angry (like any normal person would), you are labeled as a violent or aggresive person (even if you NEVER touched anyone) and it will stick. If she decides to really put the heat on, she can say you were abusive in the marriage (even without ANY history of police reports, neighbors seeing bruises, etc.), and make it stick.

This is what I see. There was a problem with domestic abuse in our country years ago (still is to a degree but we are much more aware of it). I am not saying there is no female to male abuse, but the incidence of male to female abuse was higher and it was more socially acceptable. We have become aware of the wrong of these things, and put laws in place to protect women from abuse. However, in trying to make things right, the courts have put in place a mechanism for vindictive women, lawyers, and others to point a finger, accuse, and convict men with absolutely no proof or evidence other then their word. The courts also fail to recognize that a woman in this position is angry (most often) over the break-up of the relationship, the loss of the financial aspect, and IMHO the loss of the control over the person they supposedly love and has every reason in the world to retaliate by making false allegations, and doing whatever they can to "take him to the cleaners" as a form of punishment. So, in trying to right a wrong, the court/legal/governing forces we are subjected to have created a NEW wrong and the scales of justice are STILL unbalanced.


If the MIL is a para-legal and drafting documents for the daughter, she is praticing law without a license and the poster can file a complaint with the attorney grievance commission in his state.

Temporary agreements usually become permanent or are the foundation for the final one. This is why I say don't agree to a "temporary" agreement that has aspects you disagree with thinking it will be changed later. It won't.

Yes, attorneys can be a drain on your bank account and there are many out there who are lower than snakes. It is hard to find a good one and sometimes it is better to do it without one at all. However, pro-se is not always the best route and you are right to advise to interview several attorneys before making a decision.

I hope things work out for him and his child. I am glad you were able to resolve your case in a positive way. That is not the outcome for all of us and I am simply trying to help another from becoming victimized by this system.

[dad2476]

Will someone please tell me how to post on socrateasers board? I'm serious. Everyone says to post there, but no one has told me how. Is he somewhere on this site? Is there a link here on a certain page? Is it some other site? Please let me know. Thanks

[notnew]

Do you see the forum called Dear Socrateaser? That's it. You go there and post just like you did here.

However, the first post you will see is called Mandatory Forum Guidelines - read it so you will post correctly otherwise he most likely won't answer.

Sorry about that.

[gipsy]

There is a drop down Box that say'sjump  to another forum . Mine is in the upper right , Some times it is in the lower left , It is yellow inside and HAs the lillte pointer on the right , Drop it by clicking , And go to Socrateaser

[gipsy]

Well  My expierience was very similar in accusations of being abuseive and being a pedophile , I did every thing from Psych Evals to Polygraph testing , And two GALS and three atty's ,
   And yes What Often happens in Pierce county wash state is the commissioner is who you see for the first hearing , And they often say " Did these people try mediation ? If no they basically put you off and tell you to go ,
      Thge reason I say to agree is because My atty told Me to agree to the temp plan ,
  My Case was similar , My son was very young and here the parenting plan was spelled out by the GAL as a graduated plan , And I had to go to court EVERY TIME , But " they Are talking ! Which is very different than My case , And He stated he Had visits ,
   My Atty told me to Agree because of her Allegations , And If AShe agreed to a parenting plan , Then  We could say to the court She made these allegations , If She really believed it then Why would she Agree ,
   So On the next appearance Thats what Happened ,
   So Agreeing worked very well for ME ,
  Next Her and her atty Made up STORIES !!!
   But We had A GAL report that said no prooff ,
   So When We went to court the commissioner Listened to their story ,
   Then I said to My atty to tell the commisioner , , I don;t want the mud slinging I just want to see My son ,
  And the commissioner just smiled at Me and We worked out a plan right then and there ,
   So Yes My case was as Bitter as many peoples ,
  But I had a very good atty tell Me how this works .
When you go to the hearing the Judge/ Or Commissioner doesn't know who to believe and they don't come out of the court to see if it's true ,
 So they rule on the safe side , And thats when you think She Made the Allegation and won , With out proof just the allegation .
    BUT When I went to court and there was a GAl report that said there was no Proof of her allegations . Well thats when the Temp Plan was modified , Each time My expierince was that I got more time with My son ,
   My point to agrreing is , In wash state if the just has not decided the case then your agreement is null ,
  But you do Set the status quo , And She has custody ,
  this person has set the status quo ,
     And  You may think Of my advice as one way or the other , I don;t care ,
     But I state More than Once I am not an atty , I stated that these are My thoughts .
   And It is what I Also stated ,
  If you go through the legal process , Then you enact a BATTLE PLAN !
    My expierience is that this will take years to settle down and if The case gets postponed , It takes 6 mo's to a year for it to get In the couts callendar again , Akk the while this is misery ,
   Hopefully what One would get from My post is to Agree to a decent parenting plan . And try to stay out of the court , Because You will be paying an atty and apying and paying ,
   These two have already been talking and Alowwing visits , Wich Is a really good sign ,
  If she was really so wacky , She would do what happened to Me . I did not see My son For One year due to Her Allegations .
   There was a time she agreed to a relatively decent parenting plan , And I wished I would of taken It , But I battled it and would up with about what She offered , I Should have negotiated a little , And took It .
   Because at the real trial with a real superior court Judge 18 Months later I got about a standard Parenting plan . Wich I am Basically satisfied with , Because I have a carreer etc , And People only thing about the Battle when the heat is on ,
   But when the Dust settles you see things very differently And , Now I do , I personally recomend to NOT use the court except as a last effort ,
   And all the so call proffesionals ,. Well The more exposure and court process there is the higher the risk Is you will get incompetance , and Biassed reporting .

[mistoffolees]

Maybe I'm missing something.

You're still married, no one has filed for divorce yet, yet you're worried about whether you'll lose the child for abandonment?

Why don't you just move back in? You're still married and it's the family home. Obviously, you want to choose a spare bedroom or sleep on the couch, but you have every right to live there. 

THEN get yourself to an attorney and file before she can.

[notnew]

.

[mistoffolees]

I'm not sure why that would matter (other than making things less comfortable).

If I were him, I'd tell her that I'm moving back in with my wife and child. Probably in writing.

Now, if she or her parents say that he's not welcome there, then he'd have pretty good evidence the he hadn't abandoned the child - and that they are actually trying to keep him from his child. If they let him move in, then he's defeated the abandonment argument. Seems that he wins either way.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer, but that seems like the best thing to me. He really needs to talk to an attorney.