Mother Moving Out of State

[abyss_walker]

This may get lengthy and I'm sorry for that.  I am writing this on my boyfriend;s behalf, I am trying everything I can think of to help him with this.
He has a 3 year old daughter born in January 2004, they were never married, they never dated actually.  In 2006 the state of arkansas gave him a paternity test (along with 3 other guys, but that's irrelevant here) and he found out that he is the father and they immediately filed for Child Support because she was recieving state aid.  Now he's paying CS here and having to pay back New Hamshire (where she is originally from) everything she got while on state aid there before he even knew there even was a child - he didn't know she had a baby until the baby was almost a year old, she was just here to visit for a weekend and went back to NH and didn't return until the kid was almost a year old.  Because it was the state that took him to court, custody and visitation was never brought up.  We did get to keep her every weekend so she could go out and party unless the mother was mad at one of us, then she denied us keeping her that weekend and when we dropped her off the mother always thanked us for "baby-sitting" the kid, it was never "I'm glad she got to spend time with her father", he was just a free babysitter to her.  Yesterday we get a call from her saying she is thinking about going back to NH to visit for 2 months.  Today we get a call saying she is going back to NH permanently and taking the kid with her.  She claims its because she cannot find a job here and they keep denying her Food Stamps here and she knows she can get both there.  She has not worked since October 2006 and we have been paying CS along with buying her, her mother, her step-dad, the kid, and another woman living with them food every month (all of them refuse to work), and buying the kid clothes, shoes, etc.  She refuses to ask the OCSE to dissolve the CS case when she moves saying he needs to "step up and be a man" and that if he wants to quit paying CS he should give up all parental rights to his daughter, we were like WTF, he's been paying CS since July 2006 when it was court order after paternity was established, kept her every weekend since April 2006, and has bought her every necessity she has needed, plus supported the mother and all the other people in the household when she refused to work.   Giving up parental rights is out of the question for him, he loves that child and one day would like to get full custody of her, the mother is unstable, cannot hold a job, and just plain psycho.  But he also does not see why he should give her 400 a month when he knows the kid doesn't get any of it (she bought a new car several months after CS started and the CS payments go towards her car payment which is almost 400 a month while the kid runs around in clothes that are way too small - size 12 and 18months for a 3 year old when she fits comfortably in a 3T and shoes 2 sizes too small!) and when she refuses to let him see the kid once she moves.  We called the only place in the state that offers free legal help but they are already representing her and cannot represent him because it would be a conflict of interest.  Is there any way we can delay her moving back to NH (she is wanting to move in 2 weeks) without having to hire a lawyer, we simply cannot afford one, the cheapest one we found wants a 1200 retainer and 200 an hour.  We want to be able to get some sort of custody of the kid, either joint of full and have t court ordered she cannot take the kid out of state, or at least keep her from taking the kid out of state until all the court stuff is done.  Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

[Jade]

>This may get lengthy and I'm sorry for that.  I am writing
>this on my boyfriend;s behalf, I am trying everything I can
>think of to help him with this.
>He has a 3 year old daughter born in January 2004, they were
>never married, they never dated actually.  In 2006 the state
>of arkansas gave him a paternity test (along with 3 other
>guys, but that's irrelevant here) and he found out that he is
>the father and they immediately filed for Child Support
>because she was recieving state aid.  Now he's paying CS here
>and having to pay back New Hamshire (where she is originally
>from) everything she got while on state aid there before he
>even knew there even was a child - he didn't know she had a
>baby until the baby was almost a year old, she was just here
>to visit for a weekend and went back to NH and didn't return
>until the kid was almost a year old.  Because it was the state
>that took him to court, custody and visitation was never
>brought up.  We did get to keep her every weekend so she could
>go out and party unless the mother was mad at one of us, then
>she denied us keeping her that weekend and when we dropped her
>off the mother always thanked us for "baby-sitting" the kid,
>it was never "I'm glad she got to spend time with her father",
>he was just a free babysitter to her.  Yesterday we get a call
>from her saying she is thinking about going back to NH to
>visit for 2 months.  Today we get a call saying she is going
>back to NH permanently and taking the kid with her.  She
>claims its because she cannot find a job here and they keep
>denying her Food Stamps here and she knows she can get both
>there.  She has not worked since October 2006 and we have been
>paying CS along with buying her, her mother, her step-dad, the
>kid, and another woman living with them food every month (all
>of them refuse to work), and buying the kid clothes, shoes,
>etc.  She refuses to ask the OCSE to dissolve the CS case when
>she moves saying he needs to "step up and be a man" and that
>if he wants to quit paying CS he should give up all parental
>rights to his daughter, we were like WTF, he's been paying CS
>since July 2006 when it was court order after paternity was
>established, kept her every weekend since April 2006, and has
>bought her every necessity she has needed, plus supported the
>mother and all the other people in the household when she
>refused to work.   Giving up parental rights is out of the
>question for him, he loves that child and one day would like
>to get full custody of her, the mother is unstable, cannot
>hold a job, and just plain psycho.  But he also does not see
>why he should give her 400 a month when he knows the kid
>doesn't get any of it (she bought a new car several months
>after CS started and the CS payments go towards her car
>payment which is almost 400 a month while the kid runs around
>in clothes that are way too small - size 12 and 18months for a
>3 year old when she fits comfortably in a 3T and shoes 2 sizes
>too small!) and when she refuses to let him see the kid once
>she moves.  We called the only place in the state that offers
>free legal help but they are already representing her and
>cannot represent him because it would be a conflict of
>interest.  Is there any way we can delay her moving back to NH
>(she is wanting to move in 2 weeks) without having to hire a
>lawyer, we simply cannot afford one, the cheapest one we found
>wants a 1200 retainer and 200 an hour.  We want to be able to
>get some sort of custody of the kid, either joint of full and
>have t court ordered she cannot take the kid out of state, or
>at least keep her from taking the kid out of state until all
>the court stuff is done.  Any advice at all would be greatly
>appreciated.


The first thing he needs to do is file for court ordered joint legal and visitation.  Right now, she has sole custody and can legally take the child anywhere she wants.  The father really doesn't have a lot of time to think about this.  He has to act NOW or he will be dealing with out of state visitation.  

[mistoffolees]

In theory, it is possible to file for custody on your own, but I would not recommend it. Find a way to come up with the $1,200 and get an attorney to file an emergency motion for custody and reatraining her from moving.

[Mamacass]

I don't recommend trying to do this without an attorney.  They know the ins and outs of the system and what is important to the courts.  Try to come up with the money for an attorney, it is worth it.  We borrowed from my 401k.  

The clothes thing isn't a big deal, at least not to the courts in our area.  We dealt with the same type of stuff you are dealing with, and our attorney told us it didn't matter.  
Also, the BM not working is normally a positive as far as the courts are concerned.  tHis means that she has more time for the child

There are a lot of things that while they are important to us as parents. the courts aren't that interested in.  

Are you looking for custody or visitation?  If only visitation, you might be ok w/o the attorney.  If looking for custody, get the attorney.  If you are looking to change custody, you need to prove the mother unfit, and show that you are fit.  You need to show the judge the environment you have to offer, and be prepared just in case you win.  (for example, you need to be able to tell the judge what child care you will use, etc...)

Start keeping track of everything.  Get a calendar and fill in as much as you can remember of what dates you have had the child.  You need to prove a pattern of your involvement in the child's life.  Also keep track of all conversations w/ the BM.  Write down anything you think might be relevant to the case to bring to the attorney.  

Good luck!

[Davy]

While stressing out over legal fees etc try giving yourself a reprieve by proposing and selling something to benefit this mama.  You have been colored into a box so start coloring outside the box ....

... try to convince her you want to lift her up and help by KEEPING THE CHILD WITH YOU while she returns to NH and that you will continue to pay her the $400 CS and kick in an additional $100 by seperate check to defray the lost value of the food stamps/welfare she might expect to receive.  Of course you will need to create a notorized signed document so that you (and girl friend) will be able to obtain medical care/treatment for the child and meet any other need that might arise concerning the child.

Title the document "Agreement for the De-Facto Custody of (child's name)".   Keep the document short and uncomplicated like :

I (little miss flip) agree to allow (John E. Stepnfetchit), the father of (child's name) to care for her medical needs/treatment.  Stepnfetchit agrees to continue  pay (little miss flip) $400 CS and kick in an additional $100 per month by seperate check to defray the lost value of  food stamps/welfare she might expect to receive.

Of course you might let her know she will probably be able to claim welfare/food stamps for the child because she is still a mother and NH will not know anything about the document because it won't be on file anywhere since it is simply a signed and notorized document.  Further entice  her by having the $100 check in her name already made out.  

If you can sell this or something like it the child would be bettered served, it is far less expensive than current and future legal fees tte and may assist the child in the future to securing have her father in her life on a daily basis.

Do you think coloring outside the box will work ??  

[Jade]

>While stressing out over legal fees etc try giving yourself a
>reprieve by proposing and selling something to benefit this
>mama.  You have been colored into a box so start coloring
>outside the box ....
>
>... try to convince her you want to lift her up and help by
>KEEPING THE CHILD WITH YOU while she returns to NH and that
>you will continue to pay her the $400 CS and kick in an
>additional $100 by seperate check to defray the lost value of
>the food stamps/welfare she might expect to receive.  Of
>course you will need to create a notorized signed document so
>that you (and girl friend) will be able to obtain medical
>care/treatment for the child and meet any other need that
>might arise concerning the child.
>
>Title the document "Agreement for the De-Facto Custody of
>(child's name)".   Keep the document short and uncomplicated
>like :
>
>I (little miss flip) agree to allow (John E. Stepnfetchit),
>the father of (child's name) to care for her medical
>needs/treatment.  Stepnfetchit agrees to continue  pay (little
>miss flip) $400 CS and kick in an additional $100 per month by
>seperate check to defray the lost value of  food
>stamps/welfare she might expect to receive.
>
>Of course you might let her know she will probably be able to
>claim welfare/food stamps for the child because she is still a
>mother and NH will not know anything about the document
>because it won't be on file anywhere since it is simply a
>signed and notorized document.  Further entice  her by having
>the $100 check in her name already made out.  
>
>If you can sell this or something like it the child would be
>bettered served, it is far less expensive than current and
>future legal fees tte and may assist the child in the future
>to securing have her father in her life on a daily basis.
>
>Do you think coloring outside the box will work ??  


Only if the goal is to teach the child unethical behavior.  

What you suggested he do is illegal and he can end up in a lot of trouble.  Not to mention, that he will have to reimburse the government for the money that the mother received while he had custody of the child.  This is on top of what he would be paying her to buy his child.

Oh, one more thing, unless a judge signs off on any agreement, it isn't legally binding.  

[Davy]

>>Only if the goal is to teach the child unethical behavior.

The primary overiding goal is to protect and stabilize the child.  Thus far the mother and the government have not only failed to do so but have contributed to their own unethical and immoral behavior.  Four men needed to be tested to determine who would be held accountable to financially provide for this woman without providing for the well-being of the child via a custody arrangement.  Needless to say, the woman is not held accountable to the child, herself, or society.

>>What you suggested he do is illegal and he can end up in a lot of >>trouble. Not to mention, that he will have to reimburse the >>government for the money that the mother received while he had >>custody of the child. This is on top of what he would be paying her to >>buy his child.

UHMM !  "defray the lost value of the food stamps/welfare she might expect to receive"  was said jokingly.  Replace that phrase with "be a helping hand to lift her up" and all is well.  It should be assummed this woman will probably attempt this welfare fraud on her own and does not need to be advised likewise.  

"buy his child"  WOW !  Picky ! Picky !  Just remove the term Defacto Custody just title the document an agreement concerning (the chilld's name).  In practically and legal ease this would constitute defacto custody.  It would be prudent to get a medical release form from any medical facility.

BTW, one of my best attorneys wanted 50K upfront money and said the case would probably cost between 75k to 125k depending on how the other side reacted.  Let's just enter the twilight zone for a moment.  If I had said 'OK' then would I be buying my children ?  And did the mother put a For Sale sign on her children ?  The attorney ?  The government?        

>>Oh, one more thing, unless a judge signs off on any agreement, it >>isn't legally binding.

No one said anything about being legally binding.  Many parents accross the nation have some sort of defacto custody.  Think about it !!  It bugs me to death to see advice being given to run out and hire an attorney without knowing what to expect, how to interview, etc.

If Dad has the child in his possession for a considerable time he stands a much better opportunity to gain a legally binding custody arrangement and he'll pay a lot less for his child(ren).

[abyss_walker]

We will try something like this, but I'm not sure she will go for it.  She has obtained the services of the free legal aide here, if she asked them, would they possibly object to it, tell her its not in her bests interests?  We have already offered to keep the child for a bit while she went up there to get on her feet (she has no job lined up, no place to live lined up, no money to obtain a place to live beforehand) and she outright objected saying he has no rights to her (the child) since there is no custody or visitation agreement.  We even offered to keep her for awhile so she (the mother) wouldn't have to move.  She is really stupid , but since she has consulted the free legal aide, she's starting to throw legal stuff in his face pretending she knows what she's talking about.  for 3 years she wanted nothing to do with this child, left her home alone at night while she went out to party, and left the child with her grandmother, the neighbors, anyone who would watch her for days at a time.  Its only since she's become unemployed and no longer has the money to party that she all of a sudden wants something to do with this child.  And with this newfound wanting to be a mother phase she's going through, I think it would take a miracle to get the child away from her.  Couldn't she throw a fit a month or so after she gets to New Hampshire saying we abducted the child?  Would a notarized agreement like that protect us from any alligigatons (sp?) like that?
Thanks again for all your help!