Age 12, decide or not?

[mango]

If a child at age 12 says they want to live full-time with one parent or another, how much weight does that carry in court? If the parents have always had a joint custody  plan?

Does a judge listen to a 12 year old? Or will they just make the child continue the custody order?

We expect this will happen because the PAS is getting stronger, and eventually the child will go against us in court. All the warning signs are there.

We are tapped emotionally, and finacially, and have two other kids to fend for.

 Would it be awlful to give up? and let her go...? If that is what she says she wants, shouldn't we give it to her?

[SLYarnell]

Your child at 12 is too young to decide what is best for herself... think about that... is she old enough to decide where she lives? How to take care of herself, how to ward off a parent that wants her to give up on YOU?  Of course not, she NEEDS you, now and forever.  She needs to know that regardless of what she says and does you will always be there for her.

If she wanted to quit school would you let her?

If she wanted to smoke pot would you say go ahead?

If she wanted to have sex would you provide the room?

Of course not...

Please dont give up on your child...

[mango]

But is all the negativity good for her? The constant problems the BM creates and the court battles. Her BM says we are horrible people for not letting her live where she wants, and that she is so miserable rotating back and forth. (Which I know her mom fills her head with regularly) But if the child is saying it too, at what point do we let go...?

[SLYarnell]

Put yourself in her shoes.  If you were trying to make the best of a horrible situation by agreeing with your mom because it is easier to agree than fight and then your dad gave up on you???  How would that make you feel?

And have you even given a thought to what will happen if you give up joint custody? You will get slammed with child support to the fullest extent that she can manage and you will still be removed from your childs life thru PAS

I cant convince you to stick with your child but if you dont I feel so very sorry for both of you... it will be a life changing decision.

[Brent]

>If a child at age 12 says they want to live full-time with
>one parent or another, how much weight does that carry in
>court? If the parents have always had a joint custody  plan?
>
>Does a judge listen to a 12 year old? Or will they just make
>the child continue the custody order?

Read this for some answers to the questions above:

At What Age Can A Child Choose?
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/choose.htm

[NeverGiveUp]

Being at that stage myself I can sympathize with your thinking.  It really doesn't matter why the child wants to live with the other parent (It should, but it doesn't).  If you find a GAL or judge to consider PAS you are a very lucky parent indeed.  But if you're like the majority of us, you've exhausted yourself financially, emotionally, and physically, fighting to remain a part of your childs life.  In return you are kicked in the teeth time and time again.  We all know it's true.  If it weren't we wouldn't even be here.

Contrary to my ID, I myself have begun looking for support from those who can understand that I have NOT given up on my children.  They have been TAKEN from me.  That's one of the biggest issues holding us back.  In all of the articles I've read about the injustice of our family courts, all of the GALs, evaluators, therapists . . . that I have talked to, the message is always the same, "You must never give up".  As if we've been given a choice.

I think that if your 12 YO is mature enough to make these decisions (in the eyes of the court) then they're old enough for you to shoot straight with them.  So shoot straight, tell her you want her to remain living with you.  If she decides not to then at least you've made your position clear.

Mango, I understand your struggle, I pity your position, I imagine you've probably done all you can.  Only you can know for sure though.  If you decide you have, then know there's at least one person out there that will understand that you didn't give up.

So let's try spreading that message for now on.  "We didn't give up.  We were defeated"

[mango]

We have been in 3 rounds of custody so far. Since child was age 5 and is now age 10. Yes, approx every 9 months! Each and every time the courts give us the 50/50 plan. Neither parent better then other. They aslo say it's better to settle disputes.

Well, settling is not an option with the ex. It's her way or highway.

Well I am thinking in the furture, but we know that at age 12 (in less then two years) she will have us in court yet again.

I wonder tho, don't courts have a limit to how many times they will re-open a custody case?

[Peanutsdad]

Mamgo, I can completely empathize with you. There is no negotiating with my ex either,, her idea of that is for me to completely capitulate to what she wants.


Her idea of a "good " agreement is for me to give up custody to her,, and have "liberal" visitation.


When I started my case, she denied me ANY access. By the time my daughter was 16 months old, I HAD custody.

[tulip]

There should be a limit. Our judge seems to have made it pretty clear that she will not award joint custody unless she believes that the parents can cooperate with each other and communicate. That means that going back to court would make them go "Whoa! Joint custody doesn't work here." Hopefully they will figure it out.

I don't think 12 is old enough for a child to decide where they want to live. In our case, the judge said she wouldn't want to even ASK them unless they were at least 14.

If your case is evaluated, they may consider the fact that the other parent is trying to alienate you, and therefore decide that it's better to have someone in control who is more concerned with keeping BOTH parents active in the child's life. Depends on the person, and that usually just comes down to luck.

What a 12 yo wants is not always what's best for them, and if you feel that what she wants is not what's best for her, I suggest you explain to her in a very loving way why you feel that way. And talk to her about in a way she can understand.