children talking to judge

[shuckybucky]

I am a CF and my ex has told my 9 year old BD that when she turns 12 she can tell a judge she wants to live with her mom. My ex has made it clear there will be a custody battle when my daughter turns 12 and her family is willing to pay for it. I got custody 5 years ago because the BM was on drugs and there was abuse and neglect substantiated. The BM is not any better now but has learned how to hide it and her family ensures she looks good on paper (keeps her utilities paid, rent paid, car, etc). The odds of me having anything to use against the mother when my daughter turns 12 is slim. I am very worried about her getting custody back because it would be a disaster for my daughter.

1. Will a judge automatically give her custody if my daughter says she wants to live with her?
2. What can I do to be prepared for the custody battle when my daughter turns 12?

[ocean]

Do you live in the same school district? They do not like to pull a child out of school. Make sure her grade are passing, goes to school, up to date on dental and medical.

Your ex has to PROVE a substantial change happened to ask for custody. Since she has a history of drug use, you can ask for testing. If she is clean, maybe at that time offer her more parenting time but that your daughter is thriving by you. Does your daughter have friends by you and into sports or school activities. Even with your daughter maybe saying that she wants to live with mom, that will not make the change by itself. Custody cases take months/years to work out so you can have your lawyer drag it out too.

Tell your daughter NOT to worry about it and that you will take care of it. Possibly bring her to a counselor now so she can talk about her feelings. A counselor YOU pick and are comfortable with (interview them first without her, it will take time to find one that you like). Have them help your daughter cope with dealing with her mother. They may even call mother and help the situation. This way you have a counselor lined up and one you like that you can use if the mother tries for custody.

You could also file now in family court that the mother will not talk to the child about court cases and who to live with. That it is bothering your daughter to choose between the families. Read your papers you already have, it might be in there already and then you can file contempt of court on her since she is putting child in the middle.

Does your daughter like being there? How is she after visits? Can you offer mom now an extra day here and there and see if she takes it? Document any extra time or any time she cancels until then.

Good luck!

[shuckybucky]

We do not live in the same school district but her father just moved into my daughters district so I am sure they will use that as her address. It's hard to explain but her family are your typical enablers and they are willing to pay for everything and make her look good on paper. We do already have an order about talking to the child about these issues but really it's pointless. Since I got custody five years ago we have been in court every year. They slap her hand with little contempts but she seems to walk out in a better position (paying less support, less restrictions, more visitation, etc). We went to mediation in May and I agreed to give her Thursdays overnight but her lawyer hasn't drawn up the orders yet so I havent allowed her to have her yet. It is hard for me to offer her more time when I don't trust her and don't feel my daughter is safe. At this moment her newest live in boyfriend (7th live in since I got custody 5 years ago) is on parole and drinks from the time he gets up til he goes to bed. She allows him to drive the children around (no license and drunk). I have spent enough time in the courts to know that I cant prove it so nothing will be done and part of me feels like I should quit interfering and let things run their course. My lawyer said not to worry about a custody battle because she won't get custody but to make sure I have the money ready. One thing that I find strange is she has 3 kids with 3 men and they were all taken. She has never fought for the youngest. She has never asked for an extra minute with him and signed over custody at a park with no lawyers involved but made my daughter stay in horrible conditions and I had to fight her all the way to the courthouse. She says it's because that dad doesn't fight her but I am not comfortable with her motives (the type of people she associates with and wanting the daughter). I dont ask my daughter where she wants to live because I think that's rediculous and it isn't up to her. My daughter just recently said she might want to spend more time over there but admits there are no rules, no bedtime, no toothbrush, no soap, and rarely any food. She gets every visit because the dad picks up and delivers not because she does anything.

[MixedBag]

Ocean.....I used to believe that a parent has to prove a substantial change in circumstances....

Shucky -- get to know your states laws or code regarding this subject.

Some states will "listen" to the wishes of the child and that's defined in the law.  Other states take it only as input into the entire situation.

[MomofTwo]

MB is right...for a change in custody, Mom has to show a substantial change in circumstances and how the change would be in the best interest of the child. 

Most states that had listened to the child's wishes at age 12 have changed their statutes and the childs wishes are no longer binding.  There are a few states that will listen to the childs wishes and why they want a custody change, but judges will only listen.  Only a judge can make that decision.

[shuckybucky]

I live in Texas. I am venting but this is exactly why I don't want her to ever get custody. She had her kids this weekend and they say the house is full of beer bottles, filthy, and boyfriend is staying drunk all day and gets mean to the oldest kid (who probably needs a lot of discipline). The mom has the kids lying about everything (such as the boyfriend living there) and the kids just act like this is normal and for some reason seem to be bonding with mom more than they ever have. I am sick of CPS and modifications. After 5 years of this I feel like I should let it go on and eventually she will end up with legal issues or the kids will decide they don't want to be around it. It seems like all CPS has done is catch her and then work in her favor. I am so sick of this woman and the kid battle. I am sure there are so many people on this forum that go through this. What do you do?

[asof2005]

I live in Texas. I am venting but this is exactly why I don't want her to ever get custody. She had her kids this weekend and they say the house is full of beer bottles, filthy, and boyfriend is staying drunk all day and gets mean to the oldest kid (who probably needs a lot of discipline). The mom has the kids lying about everything (such as the boyfriend living there) and the kids just act like this is normal and for some reason seem to be bonding with mom more than they ever have. I am sick of CPS and modifications. After 5 years of this I feel like I should let it go on and eventually she will end up with legal issues or the kids will decide they don't want to be around it. It seems like all CPS has done is catch her and then work in her favor. I am so sick of this woman and the kid battle. I am sure there are so many people on this forum that go through this. What do you do?

I know this isn't saying much, and you have heard it all before.  My husband has just been slammed by his kids' mom, who is little more than a babysitter.  She is throwing everything she has at him to take time away from him and even try to make him go to jail.  They have shared custody and neither parent has more say than the other in this one.  We should of called CPS in the past and welfare too for her cheating the system, but we never did. 

Now my husband and the kids are paying for it.  The other day after he got the latest paper served about trying to raise his child support he said he didnt know if he should keep fighting.  I said he has to or the kids will never make it out of her home good people.  Everytime we think something is going in our favor we get knocked down again.  Even though his health is actually deteriorating because of this, he has to fight to save his boys.  In the end, if he or you gave up, it wont get better.  If the un-capable mother is going to raise the kids, the very capable dad will end up going crazy wondering how his kids are doing, if they are being taken care of, if they are going to school.  It will get worse for the kids and make you feel worse for not stopping it.  I know the feeling of wanting to give up, but she will get hers.  they say Karma is a b**ch.  I know it doesn't seem like anything you are doing is working but it has to be done for the children.  If you wont fight for them, who will? 

[snowrose]

My SD is 9, and between my experience and speaking with SD's therapist what I'm learning is that at 9 years old a girl wants to make her BM happy.  She'll say things that aren't really true to make mom happy.  And when mom's not around she'll most likely create a little fantasy in her head about how happy everything will be when she and mom are together.

Now maybe, just maybe, by 11 your daughter will begin to outgrow that fantasy thinking - especially if she spends some negative time with BM and she begins to see her mother for what she is.  But if it's anything like my SD9 here, she won't be able to contradict things her mother says.  If mom is standing there and says "DD wants to live with me" then DD will go along with it even if it's not true.  So at that point, a few years from now, I would recommend that you do as ocean suggested and get a therapist for DD.  That way you'll have someone who really knows DD's fears and dreams, and you have someone who will be able to tell the courts if DD wanting to move in with mom is just DD trying to help BM live the fantasy, rather than it being DD's honest wish.