Speaking of passports...

[Davy]

Yes.  These EXCUSES are exactly why the court system is BROKEN and how children continue to be unprotected and placed at risk.   

[MixedBag]

Wanna get back to the original question....

For the longest time -- like 8 years now -- it's been my understanding that the law changed and BOTH parents have to sign in order to get a child's passport until the child themselves becomes 14 and can sign for their own.

Now I'm doing this off the top of my head -- not doing the internet research to attach links to this stuff, but I have family overseas and travel and kids.....so passports were and are part of my life.

I remember getting my son a passport just before the "rules changed" to having both signatures required and thinking that when it expired, there would only be "one summer" where he might not have one so I couldn't plan a vacation to Germany etc....just over that summer....

Anyways....also looked into something just last month because BF's nephew, niece, and sister and husband went on a cruise to Mexico and nephew (of age) surely didn't have a passport.  Seems as if there are still loopholes, and there will be even after Jan 1st, where if the trip is a "closed loop" trip, passports are not required.    Since the original question came up as a result of a cruise trip -- a passport may not have been required.

And now they are doing two different things -- passports and some similar thing geez, forgot what it was called, but it didn't cost as much as a passport -- like a travel ID.....

IMHO -- if you/parent thinks there's gonna be a problem, then put the child on that watch list that was linked in the Sean Goldman thread.

Go to the post office and get the form and see what it says TODAY....not what it used to say because things have changed in that arena and they will continue to change with all that is going on in the world today.

[teacher98]

Thanks everyone!!  DH didn't make a huge issue, because SS did come back and he doesn't want to drag everything into court.  We questioned the legality of it back then, but left it alone because things were shaky enough with BM. DH is trying to be civil with BM and work things out between them as much as possible. It is really hard sometimes and we are super flexible and often get the short end of the deal for the sake of SS.  We are, however, not naive to the ins and outs of court and just want to have a full arsenal if and when we need to go before a judge.  I just thought I would bring it up here since it seemed relevant to current events.  I would still like to know more opinions if anyone thinks a parent with joint legal and sole physical can obtain a passport with only a birth certificate that does not list the father.

[MomofTwo]

Passport requirements for air travel changed in 2007, for land and sea, they did not change until June 2009.  It wasn't until 2008 both parents signature or affadavit was required, so yes, Mom could have legally obtained a passport two years ago without Dad's signature or affadavit and it was totally legal.

[teacher98]

Thanks momoftwo.  Where did you read that?

[MixedBag]

http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html (http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html)

[Davy]

 
FOR CLARIFICATION for another poster :

Please notice the words "ENTRY" to the US from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda
New Passport and Border Entry Rules: The Basics





The requirement for travelers to present a passport to enter the United States when arriving by air from any part of the Western Hemisphere took effect on January 23, 2007. This means that all persons -- including U.S. citizens -- traveling by air to the U.S. from destinations such as Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean must have a valid passport to enter the U.S.
(Note: In June 2007, the U.S. State Department announced the temporary Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) accommodation, which allowed U.S. citizens to travel by air within the Western Hemisphere using an official proof of passport application receipt. The WHTI ended as scheduled on Sept. 30, 2007, and the full passport requirements described in this article are in effect.)
Timeline for New Passport and Border Entry Rules
The new passport and border entry requirements are to be implemented in phases. The first phase (effective January 23, 2007) applied only to air travel. The second phase (effective January 31, 2008) affects U.S. citizens seeking entry into the U.S. at the U.S.-Canada and U.S.-Mexico borders. A third phase of passport requirements will extend to all land and sea travel to the U.S., at a date to be determined by the Department of Homeland Security.
Phase 1 - JANUARY 23, 2007: Passport requirement applies to all air travel to the U.S. from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda. The only air travelers who will be exempted from the new passport requirements are those traveling with a Merchant Mariner's Document or NEXUS Air card.
Phase 2 - JANUARY 31, 2008: U.S. citizens age 19 or older seeking entry into the U.S. at the border must present documentation that proves both identity and citizenship, such as a valid U.S. passport. Identification documents must include a photo, name and date of birth. (See Document Options (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/chnge_in_proced.xml), from the Department of Homeland Security). Children ages 18 and under will only be required to present proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate. For more information on the new border identification requirements, see Travel Document Requirements FAQ (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/qa_travel_docs.xml) from the Department of Homeland Security.
Phase 3 - DATE TO BE DETERMINED: Passport requirements are planned for all travelers seeking entry into the U.S. by land or sea. This page will be updated as new information becomes available.

[teacher98]

Thanks Davy for clarifying the rules of entry and exity. That is good to know. However, I am still curios as to if the post office would accept only a birth certificate with mother only listed as enough documentation for a passport.  DH had joint legal custody of his son but the birth certificate still only listed mother.  Many children have situations like this, so wouldn't it be necessary to always have BOTH parents there unless there was clear proof that one of the parents was deceased or not a legal guardian?  Hypothetically speaking, BM could have obtained the passport this way and then took SS away forever.  Any thoughts??

[mdegol]

Yes, to get a passport or renew a passport, you need to present a valid birth certificate.  Both parents need to be present, or a notarized letter from the other parent needs to be presented, or custody papers showing that one parent has sole legal.  If mother presented an old birth certificate, the post office doesn't know that there is an updated one.  Are you saying the old birth certificate left the father as blank or unknown?  I guess if she used it, the post office would accept it, since that situation must come up here and there.  Otherwise, people under 18 that don't know who their father are could never get a passport, which doesn't make a lot of sense.  Post office has no way of knowing that birth certificate is no longer valid.  But for sure she was playing with fire if this was done.  For a cruise, I am not sure that child would have needed it back then.  Probably depended on the rules of the cruise line.


Here's the thing: I don't think you can stop people from doing something that is illegal, like kidnapping, if that is in their nature.   I think a lot of these protections are there more to make people feel better than to actually stop these sort of crimes.  If someone is intent on committing the act, they will do it somehow.  It like the Brazilian mother, she used deception to get child out of country (probably most common way these things happen).  A silly thing like a passport won't stop these people.  Anyway, people take kids away and stay within US borders.  Personally, I think it is important for child to experience foreign cultures, so generally, one should allow international vacations.

[CuriousMom]

I only brought it up in the other thread because a woman a work with said something she experienced but I didn't think it was totally correct. 

Her nephews father wanted to take him out of the country on vacation.  Her sister was okay with it, they got their son a passport so he could go, but their destination/country required a notarized letter with the absent parent's consent  in addition to the valid passport. 

I don't know when it occured in relevance to the entry/exit changes over the years.


Teacher98 -

I got my son's passport without dad's consent, no intentions of fleeing the country, because he was absent at the time and there was no custody order in effect.