Need help with PAS

[littlebit]

We have a court date in 6months.  BM does typical PAS stuff dating back to as far as I remember. But it's getting more common with the pending court date.

Me & son have one phone call per week.  BM records them and sits next to son telling him things to say and to ask me; trying to trap me in something of course.  Another common tactic of hers is to make a big deal about having some great fun place they were planning to go for the evening, but can't, because they have to be there for the phone call.

I missed my last two weeks' calls (first time in 12 months).  First time was due to surgery.  The other, I was 30 minutes late and got answering machine.  When someone finally answered they said he was in bed already.  Son left me ugly messages saying "...I can't believe you would forget to call your son..."

I say it's minor only because, so far, when son comes on the weekends, his attitude is great.  Nothing is said about the crazy phone calls or e-mails that happened during the week while at BM's house.  We have a great time as if nothing has happened.

I know she is completly coercing him to do & say these things, but my patience is running thin.  So far, I've done nothing and said nothing to him about it.

Anyway, this wknd I goofed a little.  Son wanted to stay extra, so I called and asked BM.  She got nasty quick and said "If you don't have son back by 5:00 husband will be there to kick your ass and then I'll have your ass thrown in jail".  I hung up and told wife what BM said...son was right behind me.  I felt like such a jerk!

So our weekly phone call consisted of him saying things like: why did you lie about my mother?...I know she didn't say that....She recorded the call and I listeded to it...

My response was the usual:  that is a conversation for adults...Change subject...I'm sorry you have to hear things like that...change subject...you know I don't talk about grown-up things with you...change subject...

So BM won't let it drop, and now come the e-mails today...You shouldn't lie about my mom...if you loved me you wouldn't make up lies to me...you didn't care about adult conversations when I heard what you said about my mom...

I'm losing patience, and losing hope!  How in the world do I make him see who the real f..ing lier is!!??  I have never told him ANY of the horrible things BM has said and done.  He knows nothing about how she accused me of sex with my children, or how she had an affairs with men and women, or how she tried to keep me from ever seeing him again, or how she has kept me from him a hundred times, or all the physchotic messages she has left me, or the threating letters I've gotten...I could go on and on!  Fact is, he seems to believe that she is all good, because of me... because I won't poison his mind with all that crap!

 

[gipsy]

Something that is reaally hard for me to Understand is how they do this . My son Is five now , And What I see is this . I had to explain some of this to My son , She was telling Him that I would hurt him and really didn't love him , And alway's talked bad about me too Him , Maybe it was good that she  Told Him That I would hurt him , When He was only 3 Years old etc , Because this is how it panned out for her ,
   He is five now and Has stood up to her, But let me tell you how I handled it
     First I will admit there were things I did say that were wrong , Basically what You say out of anger as a direct attack Back upon her will only cause him  to react , And Not like You , I think this Is part of PAS. I think Kids will side with the parent they are with the most , But they will also do and say things to please what ever parent they are with ,
    I absolutely do not think that you will lose this game , I did not because it has backfired on My rotten bitch , Here's how
     First I did get involved in the negative crap , And that just seems to make it worse, and what I think is these psycho's will Maniplulate , As In when the kids goes home if you don't think they tell there mom what you say Then think again ,  And these psycho moms some how make your negative reaction to there crapp worse and more convincing to the kids , So I came up with something that worked for Me ,
    I just told My son the truth , That  what His mom say's is like if I held  My empty hand out , And I symbolised , [Holding My hand out]
 And said If Isay here's a piece of candy > And open My hand and there is no Candy , then I am tricking you and there is No candy , But I tried to tell you there was candy , And I did this Different times at different visits , And I would say this is like when Your mom say's That I will hurt You , Or I don't love you ' Or I am a bad person ,  I said you don't ever see me be bad , But your mom say's I am , And etc about hurting him . Then I said , Just like This fake candy in My hand , I said it was there but it is not real , And just like your mom say;s those things about me that are not real , And You can see that I really love you and do not hurt you But she tells you things that never come true ! It took a while But he got it , And I explained to him what a lie is , I never called his Mom a liar , But he figured it out ,and he said ," She is lying to me Because I can see that you never hurt Me " The other thing that Is good that I had to realise also . Is exactley what you are saying when he comes to your house ,The visits are good . HOLD ON TO THAT !! . And do not give up , thats what these psycho's hope for , And they try to drive you to give up , As a matter of fact the next time she threatens to have her boyfriend to come kick your ass invite them over and say , My atty say's if you kick My ass ,  let you because the consequence you will serve with the domestic violence laws are a  , jail term so then He will be out of the picture for a while ,for Me taking a few wacks . And that Is exactly what My atty said , , But back to the reall issue , Just do not give up And alway's go get your son . I think it is imperative that you explain what a lie is to him , And explain this all in a way that he will figure it out , And that does not mean you say crappola about Mom , Just Make sure he knows what A lie is , And tell him that that is not what you say to her , He will figure it out , Now as far as My son . he has figured it out , But I don't think Verbal attacks of his mom would have ever won this argument , As a matter of fact when I figured out what I already explained , And that I should just tell him Mom Is probably better at cookies and cake making than me , And I am good at carpentry , So were both smart , Then  things started to change , but it took months
   And My son would seem much more relaxed with Me when I quit reacting to His  Comments about how his mom talks about me , And I will guess that you probabl;y ask him about what goes on at Moms . I did , I will tell you a little bit of that is ok , But it is just a bunch of crappola , And to win this your side of this has to stop , At Any rate , I would ask My son And sometimes he would be a little shell shocked and it would come out , So I would tell him that he could tell her that this makes him feel bad , when she talks bad about dad , Well
    He got into the car one day and said ," Bullshit " I said "what" , He said "I telled My Mom Bullshit when she talked bad about you " And I told her it makes me feel bad "
     So what I am telling you, is Your side has to get better on this
    The other thing I  had to realise is , Like you that the visits were going good , it was just what was going on with the crapmouth from her to Him about me , And the more I decided to Just Have the good visits with Him And go to the hobby store and get toy airplanes and rocket kits and , Do Hobbies and be a cool dad , And Play video's ,the  Better My relation ship was with Him , Of course when You  act more healthy , And he grows close ,she will try more shit on the situation , But remmember just keep being the good dad , And what eventually happened Is mom Must have  came to the conclusion that My son will love me and she can't stop it , And Just decide to have such good visits that he will want to come back , Involving him in the crapp with Mom too Much Will just make it worse on Him , I litterally had to tell My self , Ok Absolutely NO questions or comments about mom or any of this during My visits , And When I did that things got better between Me and My son . And I began to learn , Kids don't really like this crap and they are not going to take sides ,as a matter of fact it seems to me at this point that she is losing ground for being the one to continue this crap mouth about me to My son , And he say's she has quit doing it so Much ,
   There was a time that he would not hug Me goodby in front of his Mom , And she was giving him the evil eye etc , So I would turn Him away so he couldn't see her and say give me a hug , And she would have to see this and was such a punk she would be rolling her eye's
   etc , But here's the deal You still have the good visits , And don't give up . She's just scared And sick , And she is going to do this , I have been through the whole thing , To sum Itupto You Just Be a good dad, I Have to admit the pressure of this crap can poisen Your time with your son , If I could make anything at all clear to You, Would be this , When I let her get to me , it affected My time with My son, that was a big waste . And when I pryed my self from that ,and started haveing Higher quality visits , Then My relationship with My son was better , I feel certain that As long as you don't give up she can't Alienate , And I think  When these psychos figure out you are not giving up then they will accept this , My psycho has [for now]Been way better , And I can see that My son is more relaxed , But if you are going to court soon tension is High , Again forget that and force your self to have High quality visits , And win By being the good parent that doesn't pester this little guy with this crap . I changed when I realised that My son really hated it when I reacted and talked bad about Mom , And he is not going to take sides , Or see what A terrible bitch His mom is ,  WON"T HAPPEN. But again When I began to be conducive to his relation ship to his mom. I could see the stress wipe right off his face , So If I have to say grin and bear it ,and lie to him, and say Mommy is Ok For you because she is Your mom, and You love her and that is good for you . Or what ever . You say like that It will get better When Your side Makes him feel better , I think Kids feel uncomfortable if they think they aren't supposed to like there mom when they are with you . And Vise versa , OK enough , But I repeat ,I feel that I really have learned these lessons , And they are real

[littlebit]

I appreciate your plain straitforward way of writing.  But even more than that, your information is priceless!!  If you are not a professional guru, you have missed your calling!

[MYSONSDAD]

You say it like it is. Not only do you share what works, but you share your mistakes. Not many people will do that. You have saved many of us from needless heartache.

I have a PBFH too. So much of your ex, comes out in mine... Glad there will someday be an end to the madness.

"Children learn what they live"

[wendl]

HEHE Gipsy is a man of few word.

Sorry hun, you helped us get a great atty and you learned alot from your mistakes, the info our friend gave us and our atty.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[gipsy]

Your thanks help's to chisel That hardened growth from my heart from this experience ,  I can't help my self or  any one by hiding the truth , If we all said we didn't do it, how could we fix it , But that doesn't mean tell the other Side ! The good thing is My self and My cousin for sure See Our children based on determination . And suiting up and showing up at court ,

[rainbow1]

Sounds like your ex is doctoring the recordings. What state are you in? If you can you should record all conversations you have with son or ex. You cannot use actual recordings but some states allow you to use a transcript of the calls. Find a local paralegal who can do this for you. It may come in handy in court eventually. You might consider family counseling for you and your son.   After all you only want the best for your son, right?