Still denying visits after court and no one is doing anything?

[boysmom1]

I'm a new member. I've been dating a man with 2 children from a previous marriage since August. I'm not a jumper, meaning I don't jump into relationships, but we have already discussed getting engaged and married.

His children are 2 & 6. His x started giving him trouble about me the first time my car was ever parked at his home. I didn't spend the night, I went and visited and then went to my own home. In November she moved 1 1/2 hours away. He has a different schedule due to his job and the original divorce papers said he was to have visitation Tues - Thur. Once she moved this wasn't possible due to the oldest being in school. He asked to switch visitation to the weekends. Yes he will be working, but switched his work schedule so that he at least has Friday off. She refused. Told him there was no way in *&^% that I was going to watch her children. Proceeded to list off all of these things I supposedly have wrong with me. I'm a single mom, divorced, with 1 child, a full time job and a productive member of society. My x and I, although rough at first, now have a workable relationship regarding our son and work in his best interest. She doesn't know me, nor did I live in the town they did, so I'm not sure what her sources were. So starting in November court proceedings began. It was delayed until February. In Feb we finally made it to court and amazingly she had not one thing to say about me but wanted more money. He gave it, only fought on the items that she lied about, and it was settled. It was stated in front of a judge that he was to have visitation every other weekend. It was not specifically stated, yet implied by a temporary order and conversations prior to settlement being read in front of the judge, that visitation would start that weekend (it was a Friday). She refused to allow him to have the children. It's now a month and a half later, the order still isn't signed, she still isn't letting him have visits with the children and he has to keep up his end of the settlement or take a chance that he'll lose his job. How does that work? If she's denying him visitation b/c the settlement isn't signed, why does he have to keep up his end of it? How is it that the settlement can go a month and a half, when the lawyers involved KNOW that he's not receiving visitation and nothing be done?

Oh and the best part, she makes the 7 yr old call him and tell him it isn't his weekend and that he's lying. Has the child leave messages that are scripted - you should hear them. But his lawyer says all of that isn't worth being brought up in front of a judge! This child has told him repeatedly that the mom says he doesn't want them and only wants to spend time with me and my son. Not true! We, both he and I want to see these children very badly! But we won't beg her for the rights that are his.

The child told my son at Christmas that the mom said she didn't ever want to meet me because she hated me. This upset my son and I simply told him, loud enough the child could hear that it was ok. I told him that not everyone will like you in this world and if the mom didn't like me, that was just her opinion.

I miss these children, my son misses them, they cry on the phone to their dad that they miss him and he misses them. What can we do?

To clarify the legal issues, his lawyer was supposed to write up the settlement. His lawyer just last week wrote it up and mailed it to her lawyer on Tues 3/15. We still haven't heard anything from his or her attorney about it. When he called the office last week, the paralegal told him that if they didn't sign or make any objections w/in 3-4 days it would be sent to the judge to sign. When he called yesterday, he was told by someone in the office that if they didn't sign it he would have to go back to court. Can he fire the attorney for not doing his job? Why hasn't the attorney taken care of the issue and had the settlement there earlier? There a temp order supposed to be issued 2/16 for visitation to begin 2/18 and continue every other weekend until a judgement was made. Can we not make her follow that? I'm frustrated with his lawyer by now because of all of the wrong statements such as if this then that and we call back 2 days later and oh that wasn't right.

Any advice?

New At This

[MYSONSDAD]

Is the temp order signed by the judge? Something does not add up here. Get on that attorney big time and get this signed and in place. Sit in his office until you can get thru to him. Sometimes you can catch them before they go to court in the mornings.

After that is settled, go everytime it is his weekend, document everything that is going on. Get proof of trying to pick up the children. If she denies visitation, file contempt. This you can do yourself. But for it to be contempt, you have to physically try and pick up those kids. You could ask for a 'civil stand by' from local LEA, but they will tell you its a civil matter. Try to get a report from them if you can.

Keep all your phone records, document the calls. Get gas receipts if she denies, show you where there to pick up the kids. And never go alone, bring a camcorder if things get out of control.

Sounds very vendictive and she is hurting those kids.

Read all you can in the archives. Many good articles.

Good luck, keep us posted....

"Children learn what they live"

[boysmom1]

I don't think what the lawyer sent to him as a temp order is official. It's notes taken by the judge in his own handwriting but it doesn't have a seal or anything on it. When I got divorced, we had a temp order with the judges full signature and seal of the court. His lawyers office told him this was the temp order though. It was also sent to her lawyers office so they have a copy of it.

He goes up there every time for his visitation and no one is home. He doesn't have anyone who can go with him. I'm still at work when he's supposed to get them and his family all lives far away. If no one is home the LEA won't come out. They said since its a civil matter they won't document or anything. They won't even file an unlawful visitation interference report and require her to appear, which is what our state does. They said that if she's there and not giving the children over they will come out and look at the documentation and if its the proper time make her give the children to him, but if she's not home they won't do anything.

He keeps all of his phone records and records the messages left by the oldest. She has the oldest call his home phone while he's at work to prevent them from being able to speak and then when he calls back she doesn't answer. Even if its 5 mins after.

My problem with going to the lawyer's office and sitting is this, why are we paying someone to do nothing? I told him that if it was me, I would call and tell the lawyer, its now been 1 1/2 months since we went to court, I still don't have a signed order and I'm still not seeing my children, if something isn't done within the week you are fired and you can try to sue me for whatever you think I owe. The lawyer told him after court that he owed approx $3k. He paid a $750 retainer in November. In December her lawyer postponed the hearing. They sent 2 sets of papers back and forth, held one phone conference with the judge. They reschedule for the end of December, but his lawyer had a heart attack, no ones fault but the hearing was postponed until January. In January, the judge called 2 days prior and stated he had a jury trial and would have to postpone. In Feb, they were to go to court on a Wed, her lawyer called 30 mins prior to hearing and said she wouldn't be able to make it. That's when his lawyer, the judge and her lawyer through phone conference agreed to the temp order. The judge rescheduled for 2 days later and they went to court. He had a total of 2 meetings with his lawyer for 1 1/2 hours. Spoke on the phone a couple times but usually spoke to secretaries. So even at $150 an hour, you figure 11 hours total time that's $1650. He did all of his own research, pulling records, etc. They did have to subpoena 3 witnesses, but only had to pay 1. So even with mailings, it shouldn't be higher than $2000. Yet in Feb he said it would be above $3k. That's crazy! I spent 7 months on my divorce with a lawyer who charged $200 an hour , sent me itemized statements each month and kept me in the loop and I only spent $3k. I think this lawyer is taking him for a ride, an expensive one and the lawyer's making me mad!

[gipsy]

I would call your atty and talk to him on the phone , And Yes this crap drags out ! , Its not a good time to fire your atty if the order is almost signed , However , If the judge put it in writing I would Ask Your atty if you can file contempt , AND in the new order I would say the meeting place will be at the police station or Mcdonalds or some thing like that ,My transfer is at Mcdonalds ,  And I pick up at school on Thursday's , My atty said  . Go to Mcdonalds on time and buy a coke , Keep the time dated reciept , And use it to file contempt , If she doesn't have her reciept then she wasn;t there , But You have proof that you were there , this workes for me very well and there has been no problem since , Video taping will keep the BS to a minimum , But you have to file contempt ., You won't be likely to get it on the first couple of tries any way , thats why my atty is all for doing it your self , By the time the judge gets sick of it you will have it right , Here's how it works though , Mom has to take the day off or pay her atty to answer your pro se contempt , If she doesn't you file a default finding , Then after about the third or fourth or maybe the fifth time , you will be practiced , and the judge will be sick of it , My atty say's,  Two contempt findings in One year here is a mandatory change of custody , So look at the bright side , The way I see it is you are in the same spot as many of us , and the atty's take too long , Remember this is day in day out stuff to them , But I would call the atty and  Tell him what is going on and you want to know if you can file contempt , And how Much he will draw the papers for and let you go at it yourself , My atty does this , And he tells people to just say , :"' Mom won't let me see the Kids and I need the assistance of the court to enforce visitation"    He also say's parenting plans are not self enforcing . '" you have to go get the Judge to enforce this " So Talk to your atty , And say  Something civil , And say Hey I need this done Because I'm not seeing the kids , Again these things don't happen in our time frame , But Heed My advice , IF you fire your atty Call several ,  Maybe as many as 7 or 10 , And get one that Talks like this is buiseness , A good sign is they will help you file pro se , For a fee of like 200 $ And you have her served and then go file and then show up at court , And talk to the judge , But you must keep Mom on her toes right now she is learning to get away with this ,   I learned that a bad sign for an atty is They Talk up what they will do , Or have a we'll really get her attitude , You want an atty that explains the matters of law ,And tells you what is the law about this and talks to you in a way that makes you comfortable , There really are a number of good atty's out there , You just don't want a bad one , And 6 Weeks out is really not too bad for this type of thing , I know it is frustration , BUT You are close to a simple Modification , So talk to your atty about what the results are if she keeps this up , And what you have to do , If the atty doesn't give you simple advice then Maybe you should fire it !,  I realise , Now that My case is done that all this is fairly simple and routine , It really is , I will say fire an atty that has a give up attitude , And Call many atty's . Keep asking for attyys that represent A mojority of Men . My atty does , Thats his thing , He likes to do this , And ask if they believ you have rights , If they don't answer in a positive way , they aren;t going to fight for yours , I fired Two atty;s And I realise Its not hard to get a good one , You just have to ask some of the questions I pose , And See if the atty talks to you like a regular Human ,

[boysmom1]

Thanks for the advice. Is there a form or anything for the contempt of court? How do you file? Can you explain that procedure to me?

His lawyer has said he won't take a custody case because he gets "too involved". He took this case because it was supposed to be a simple visitation modification. My problem with this lawyer is the changing of the story. First it was that they wouldn't have to go back to court, they were writing up the agreement and then the judge would sign. I told him there's no way. They have to look at it also. Then it was well they have 3 days to disagree but if they don't answer or disagree the judge will sign it. Now the latest is well we'll give them two weeks and if they don't sign it I guess we'll have to go back to court. Quit beating around the bush and give us a straight answer. That is my biggest problem with this guy!

[gipsy]

There was something In my case when My atty was late with getting the Parenting plan in , And if I didn't respond on time then She could file . What she wanted , Your atty is being civil , And These things happen , I was late on certain things, And it was agreed that it could be entered , So His waiting is basically  Normal , However , I would call him and  Demand that he send a letter stateing that she need to comply with visitation in the interim , I Would say He is right this is a simple modifiocation , and I know it will be a painfull time in waiting , But It seems that there is no sense In firing Him right now , , However if this goes any further [Based on ) What  Your atty said about custody cases , I would Interview many atty's , Or just politely say , When you call to get Him to Send the letter to moms atty for the current visits , " I understand what you [atty] Said about not liking custody cases , And I would like to know if you know any good atty's that Take custody cases  For any need for future referenc " This should light a fire under His @$$ And Your not saying You are fireing hin , You are asking for a more intersted atty ,You probably won't get custody , Unless there is really a legal reason for a change , However  Your atty is right this is a simple custody modifcation , And You may want to just get the letter over to Moms atty to get the visits ,  It sounds that you may need to Crank on Your atty a bit , But just  Ask if Mom is in contempt , It sounds to me like this is a issue , So the deal is . Ask Your atty what he thinks of you filing a contempt pro se , And how much he will charge to draw the papers , It goes like this  Here In pierce county Washington ,
  You can go to commissioner services and ask them , I filed for My divorce Like this ,
   The people there are very helpfull , You have to be very nice ,
    I have been through the whole thing , Soo here is what I would write in the  Motion for contempt ,   Judge [        ] Ordered visits to occur Mom is not cooperating . I need the courts intervention In this matter .  
   I don't know all the papers that gowith contempt , But  My atty's theory is this , File the papers and if she resolves this before court then drop the contempt , My atty drew up contempt papers for My cousin for free in like five minutes , My cousin went pro se . And Mom straightened out , Also In the contempt filing ask for makeup time for every weekend for like three weeks , Also File a Court order to make the place of pick up at some where like the Police station or Mcdonalds, This is kind of wierd at first , But I like it better , and My atty said every one does when they do it , I really stress this , That way she has to be at the right place at the right time , Here's the Pro se Help I have learned of and know people that have used it
   Have a pen and paper in hand . Call the court and ask for the number to the BAR association ,Ask the court if there is a night when attys help people file papers  And call a  Parrelegal service in the phone Book , And go to child support and ask for there list for low cost legal help , Always have the pen and paper ready . And ask Be nice and patient . And write stuff down , then You will know what to file , A legal service from the phone book files pro se papers because they are not atty's . You have to do it pro se ,,
   Basically . You need three copies , One for you One for the court and one  To have her served By a legal service , Or a friend , But a legal service that works the area she lives in will do it , I have to stress , She has thumbed her nose at the judge , And you , If you let this go on it will get worse , I never had to file contempt . But I took psycho to court  several times for modifications , Guardian ad Litems , etc . If you learn to file pro se [contempt ] She has to respond or pay an atty , If she doesn't show you file a default order , So Get Off your @$$ and get on the phone with a pen , Contempt usually straightens them up , I was a member of a Dads group , And Several of them filed contempt, pro se . And eventually one guy I know won custody . There was another person on this site that eventually won . You will have to file contempt more than one or two times ,my atty say's file the first time she does it < Or you teach her that she can get away with it , I like My atty's theory of also fileing and If it resolves itself before court then You strike the motion , Remember when you go to court . the Best thing I ever said to the commissioner is " I just want to see My son "  I have found that the court doesn't want to here a lot of crapola the Commisioner smiled at me when I kept it short ,Your next statement is , "If the court does not intervien mom will continue on this path and I need the courts assistance to put a stop to it , So I can see My kids "And the Next statement is " Can I have makeup time " . You may not get any thing out of it , But the court will get sick of this and she will eventually get into some kind of trouble ,

[MYSONSDAD]

When you first come onto the Sparc site, where you scroll down to the message boards. There is 25,000  Legal Forms. There should be something on contempt in there. But if this order has not been signed by the judge, you will probably not get her on anything. I would continue to document and make the attempts to pick up the kids. get gas receipts to prove you being there. If she is not there, take pictures of her not being present, empty driveway, her car not there. Is there a bank in the area that displays time and date outside? Get a picture before and after the attempted pick ups. Ask who ever developes the pictures, not to cut the negatives, keep them in a whole strip.  

I would make attorney stick with the 3 days and then take it back to the judge to sign. These people have no respect what the parents are losing, time with the children. If you where 3 days late on support, plan on sitting in jail.

You can also request an itemized list of what the attorney has done to this  point. I would ride him hard until this order gets signed.