Sick & Tired of playing by her Rules. Need to know where to start.

[larryj357]

This forum seems like it is a non-custodial parents dream. Today is my first day here and I am excited to be able to gte advice from people that has been in the same situation as me.

Cliff Notes Version of my story:
ex-wife has primary custody of our 10yr old daughter. We divorced when she was one. Since then I have never had a consistent year of getting her when I our decree says so. We have joint custody and I am supposed to get the standard every other weekend and every wed for 2 hours and alternating holidays and spring breaks with 45 days in the summer.

I have tried to get her on contempt twice, but both times I had the worse lawyers on this side of the earth. First time we settled before court and she gave me the extra 15 days in the summer to make it 45 days. The second time I had to dismiss the case, because my lawyer was just an idiot. I have not gotten her for the summer in about 3 years. Her mother always makes up some excuse to put her in a summer school program during my time and says that she can't go with me because school is more important. She also doesn't give her to me on the weekends either with any consistency. Maybe once every few months. She has no concern when it comes to the law. I recently moved to Phoenix from Houston where my daughter is and I want to ensure that I can stay in her life. I am going to start sending the letters I got from this site to try and build a case against her for not allowing me to see my daughter.  I recently got a part-time job with an airline company just for the free flights for me and my daughter to see each other at least 2-3 times a month. I am also wanting to take her to court for primary custody, but I will settle for just some sort of enforcement of my alloted times. She knows that if she doesn't give possesion of my daughter nothing is going to happen to her. I am looking for some help into looking at what laws I can read to possibly file on her pro se and get to see my daughter when I am supposed to. I really don't know what else to do. I have no confidence in any lawyers. Any one that can put me in the right direction I will greatly appreciate it. I just want to be a good father. I have put up with so much crap from my ex and her family that I know that there has to be something I can do to make this better. I will not give up on being a dad to my little girl.

Thanks in advance. Sorry for the Novel, but I feel like I am pouring out my heart in just a few paragraphs.

[joni]

Maybe the 3rd time will be a charm for you.

YOu need to get an atty who is certified in family law.  Not one that has multiple shingles hanging outside their office:  family law, worker comp claim, malpractice, injury....you get the idea.

You're on the right trail by moving to where you daughter is, to where your daughter needs you.  You're on your way to leveling the playing field.

Go to this site to find an atty who's certified in family law.   There's 9 in Phoenix. Good Luck

http://www.aaml.org/Directory.htm

[gipsy]

Here's what My atty say's . And Let me qualify . I am a carpenter and have done jobs for a few atty's . I have asked them these questions ,
 Before I start let me say a few things , Atty selection is every thing . Its been My expirience that YES YOU CAN FIND ATTY'S THAT MOSTLY REPRESENT MEN !!  Keep asking ! Every atty you interview , Interview ten , and ask each one , if they like to represnt men ,What they think of filing contempt , If they give you a complicated story ,Or a mushy answer move on ,  then listen to this , The atty I hired made it soo simple I was fearfull , Because he laid it out ,
  He said Family" law is simple" . "Its not some complicated jargon ", And "There is a lot of leah way for the judge to decide ",or comissioner , But here In wash state you go to a commissioner for contempt hearings , And your first atty got you the 15 day's ,
    SO This is how he lays it out ,
   If they are not there to give you the child at the proper time and place as stated in the court order file contempt " And its not likely you will get a contempt on the first two three maybe four tries , And he say'S that's why pro se litigants can do well " Becuase why hire an atty ? If you file pro se " You may or may not have it right the first few times "  But In Pierce county court " You can go get the CD of the hearing for ten Dollars , He say's " go get it and listen too it Several times and you will get more of an understanding of what went on ,"
    I did that and fired One idiot Atty Immediately , My Former atty did not return to court with what the commissioner asked for in the last hearing , And I knew that because I listened to the CD .
    SOO My current good atty . Say's keep doing that " and this is what will happen " You will eventually get it right " And By the time you get it right The court will start wondering why the case is in front of them again " And you will eventually get  A finding of contempt" And during these filings for contempt " Alway's ask for makeup time , That way "
    If you get the make up time she had to hire an atty , or deal with this herself . And take the day off work " And then give makeup time " He said ' " this is behavior modification " And maybe in the mean time maybe her atty will Ask her why she doesn't just comply with the court order" 'He also  Tell's Us what to say < He said " Just keep your story short " And say In your declaration " Mom Doesn't comply with the court order " And unless I get some help from the court she will continue to Ignore the court's ruling and I will not see My child  As specified By the parenting plan " And then  Also say " If the court doesn't make a filing of contempt " then  ask for make up time " . And
   He say's the court won't just Find contempt " But after enough try's She will start to cooperate Or You will get contempt "
 He also say's parenting plans are not self enforcing . If you don't take her to court ,  You teach her that she can get away with it <
   Now My cousin had the same problem as you and many of us ! He works with me and I nagged him into going to talk to My atty < . My cousin Told me My atty typed up the contempt in like ten minutes , And told him to  File it with ther court and have her served , Then I showed with a video camera , And of course the Moms side of the family flipped us off etc ,
      So I put the video camera at them and they all started to be nice , And this problem ended , Video tapeing has helped my situation , And My cousin, Because people generally behave after a couple of surprise filmings , Just ask for the kids , And pop the camera out and wella , Things get better , And guess what < No one will be so likely to view it at court any way < But as My atty said < She will make a stink of it and send a  nasty letter , And you file the nasty letter , And say whats she trying to hide , I'm just trying to get my child and keep the situation as calm as possible ! And thats exactly what happened
    So there you have it ,And there are parrelegals in the phone book , And here In Pierce county washington there are nights at the court where atty's will help file for pro se litigants , , Call the court . And also here child support has a list of low cost legal help , Guess what ? you can use this too !
   SOOO Finally , My cousin and other pro se litigants have done well , Maybe not the first or second time but , My cousins situation cleared up , And he is glad he tried it pro se , He did say the commissioner just told them to work this out , And if there is any more problems try to work it out before coming back to court" , But the mother is now cooperating , Also the atty that got you the 15 days back, did as well as any atty , But remmember , that is part of the history , And Your psycho had to go through the process and still give up the visits , My atty say's thats a win !

[patton]

Good old standard visitation order is what you have.  I PM'd you with a message.

[larryj357]

Thanks for the responses.

I really would like to do most of my inital contempt filings Pro Se. I have let this go on two long and I really am for the first time confident that I will be able to be a GREAT dad after finding this site. I have no idea were to get the template for the contempt papers. Does any one have one that they could pm me or is it specific state to state?

I am sure that my ex will not let my daughter come to Arizona this summer and I want to be on top of everything so I can get the ball rolling on the contempt charges.

[Bo311]

Hey i really enjoyed reading all you had to say. i have a few questions because YES im going throught the same thing with Mom not ever letting me see our son.  
i dont understand what you mean by Going PRO SE?? And what does it mean to ask for MAKE UP TIME, when you file a contempt?  I haven't heard of that. I am trying to get some information beause i want to file a contempt now...i have been denied visitations over and over. i have sent the letters i found on this site stating my dates and times...and still she refueses...and i take a SIX HOURS drive up to San Diego to pick up our son....and STILL she refuese...so i drive SIX HOURS back...with NO SON! I even called out the Shierrfs department when up there the last time...and she gladly took the report after talking to my ex wife on the phone saying she wasn't going to come out.  It gets fustrating.
So i want to file a contempt, im trying to gather all the information i can since i have heard...you need to do this a few times before you get anything going!
Thank you!

[Bo311]

I read your story...man...it's like i got flashbacks! I'm in the same EXACT frustrating, ongoing ridiculous never ending fight!!
My ex never complies with the court order.  i found all the letters to send for my intent to visit, and the denials.  I started to send them every month...and copy the court ON EVERYTHING.  It's just hard, everyone says we'll lose a few times before we start to get things going our way...i don't mind do all this over and over if it will get me my visits!

[larryj357]

Letters that I sent seemed to at least show them that I am being more agressive about my visitations. So far they are agreeing to my daughter coming to visit me for the summer. I hope everything continues as is. I will still do everything in writing and build a strong case for any future legal actions I have to take.

This board helped me with my confidence to know that I can step up and make a change instead of sitting back and hoping for a change.

Thanks

[gipsy]

pro se  means you represent your self at court < The problem with pro se ,is this . You really don't  Always know What your argument is . But ! Its usually very simple , She did not show at the place and time etc .
      My atty say's guys can do fine pro se , He said because You won't get a contempt the first few times , But He said ' " Eventually the court will get tired of you continually filing .
    He also said , She will have to answer to this if you file it , You can also ask for make up time  At the hearing ,
    My atty filed for My cousin And My cousin went pro se , My cousin basiclly said the commissioner said to work this out " If there are any further problems come back " But the commissioner didn't do any thing . However , His psycho had to jump the hoops and respond < and My atty say's most likely they will talk to an atty when you file and the atty will ask why they are not letting you see the kids , And why they don't comply with the parenting plan ,
      SO Yes it's true you won't just get a contempt finding on her the first time . But As with My cousin , His psycho straightened out !
   I have learned not to listen to what she say's or really talk to her , I go by the parenting plan ,
   Maybe File for a modification with the contempt . And say In the declaration you want the , Transfer to be at the police station , It sounds wierd , But As with me when I Changed the meeting place to Mcdonalds , As My atty recomended , If she is't there get a coke and keep the time and date stamped reciept , He said " Its your time card " If she doesn't show and she doesn't have her time card the commissioner will wonder why she doesn't have her reciept " but the neutral meeting place is better . And my atty told me everyone that does this likes it better . And I do ! Call a bunch of atty's and keep asking if they help pro se litigants  File contempt, There are cool atty's that do this . I have used two of trhem for different reasons , And did things pro se , Also go to the court and watch some  contempt hearings , Here there is a docket , But I just called the court and asked them where the hearings were ,
   The second best piece of advice was , My atty  told be to go listen to the CD of the hearing , You go to the court and ask them for a copy of Commissioner's hearing of your case  , Anf they give it to you for ten bucks , This is immensly helpfull , Because you can listen to it and get more understanding of what went on ,Then try another contempt next time ,But this recording is not made at trial or in front of a judge,