Can I get Supervised Visitation?

[gipsy]

I have looked at custody Iq's site . Some of it is correct , Like the part where he say's . I am not an Atty!
   His input :was to put the child support obligor in jail while the custodial parent utilizes a strategy to take the child to counseling , And try to take court action ,
   This is purely vendictive , I dare any one to put this series of posts and strategy information in front of an atty , And I mean all the posts leading up to His advice , So think of this cross examination , Like My atty argued bad faith acts as My reason for change of custody ,
    Atty say's " Did you have such and such of report generated on Nov 17th , 2005
  A: Yes
  Atty" was the father Incarcerated ? A yes
  ATTY : Was it as a result of you fileing a contempt charge over child support A: Yes
 Will any one have to say to the judge , Did you have him Incacerated Then run the child to a shrink While the father was in Jail ?Then generate a report against the father ?
   Will this change custody Or generate a report that say's " There is acrimony between the two !
  AND WHY ARE WE IN COURT ! DUH Because there is acrimony
 And the judge will say < OH wow what a different case ,with acrimony and all
 Or will the judge be inclined to say what the commissioner said during My case Over child support arrears
 " This always happens"
 so I sent my atty to court for  $1,200 To find out that he was just playing the game , When he could have told me myself , And told the court Mr Gipsy Is taking a loan to pay and that will fund shortly ,
  But no! So thats wHat I think of her strategy of fileing about child support arrears , It just costed  Her and I atty fee's to find that. The court will order me to pay < And I will pay when I get the loan ,
  And it did Get brought up  briefly at trial , And I think The judge was yawning during that part of examination , And in the end they saw My tax forms and The GAl report and It was done !
 No tactic no case ,And no more money wasted on this type of stuff
  My psycho told my son some very screwy things during the custody issue we had , wich were very similar to information in the original post ,
  My very good atty told me that running the child to a therapist to try to prove what she was telling him was a bad Idea that the judge would frown on ,
  However this is what custody IQ recomends , Along with jail time in a custody dispute ,
 My point is Pushing jail time  over child support , While the original person that posts Takes the child to a shrink to undermine the other parent , Thus trying to make a permanent gain Of power and control during a custody dispute is something , I think " : After My trial : Would be very bad form for the judge to  catch on to at trial , And the woman judge at My trial saw for the most part what went on and told the Mother, when Her atty asked for $20,000 In atty fee's
   Judge said " I think Mr , Gipsy's end of this was reactive " And if this comes back to me we'll see who get atty fee's "
 My atty states that the judge usually get's the general picture .
  And I have watched a few trial's and thats what I saw personally , ]
  So the advice to some one to undertake vendictive measure's
 Would be very likely to backfire ,
] And My atty know's that people say really stupid things during a custody dispute ,
 And the Judge won't pay much attention to it < The trial is to try the case of custody :
  And guess what " NIETHER atty at my trial went into anything about who told the kid what , Why ? Would it be that way ? And Would it be any proof if the kid told a shrink dad did X And what if the child said Mom hates dad , ? This is a custody dispute , And the dad is actively seeing the child , And MAy be saying the wrong thing to the child ,
  I think there is a much better attempt , Previous to vendictive action and Jail time , In order to solve this issue ,
   Custody IQ Is some one whom has a web site wich I read and some of his infromation is not even plausible to the way the law works : Some of it is plausible and fits .
 But he States he is not an atty !
  The web site and name implies knowledge , But some of it is bad info Just run it by an atty and see
   In general Eric mentions numerous atty's and going to court several times . And tactics , Well The psycho In my case had a so called tactical atty .: Didn't work !
  What IS crucial is the being to court numerous times ,
  The Point ignored is : Were these appearances at court temp orders?
 Before a commissioner or a real judge ?OR At a trial where evidence and cross examination of evidence , and cross examination of testimony are heard Or with  temp hearing where the atty;s can just say what they want ,? This is crucial to explain to some one just beginning , Because the commissioner doesn't kniow who to believe with out an investigation by a court appointed Guardian ad litem on behalf of minor child , And when that report comes in , Is it worth contesting or not ?, And the reason for the GAL report is  the courts effort in removing the atty trics tactics etc, Because the court recognised that the atty represnts the paying client , And children were sufering becuase the court does not know who to believe , In reality GAL / Parenting investigater's reports are accepted by the court  And unless the atty has a GOOD reason to dispute it then they won't waste the courts time , If you were to call it tactics , My atty exolians the best is to convince the GAL that you should have custody , And report that to the court ,
  My atty coincides with Socs board , And there are relatively simple laws that govern where the child will live , And of you do, or don't have an argument ,.. If you leave the kids at the mothers then you have just achieved status Quoe ,
  And Eric states somthing about :' Your Atty may be able to get a more favorable judge ', Well My actual expierience is , And I believe the law states :
  You can file One motion of predjudice And have that judge changed , But you don;t pick the judge , I Don't believe that any atty can pick a judge ,
   I don't believe there is a huge tactical plan ,Except to show you are a good parent , UNLESS there are legal reasons and thus proof !
  For the most part custody IQ's site is in the right direction , However If telling some one to act in a vendictive way is very bad advice !Having some one put in jail will feed the fire , and you will have a longer road ahead , I have talked to my atty about these sites , And about tactics , And he warns that most of this stuff is not applicable , And the slickest of the slick can't change a GAl report , Unless it is outright wrong ,
  I post this because I hate to see some one go through this thinking that thew right tactic , Or undermineing will win for them ,
 My atty warns this type of stuff usually will back fire , Because If you think about it this is day in day out BS at the court ,
   

[gipsy]

Ya see ,MYSONSDAD even posted three years and running ,
   This will go on and on, Try haveing your atty send another letter insisting that it's better for the child to seTtle this and remove the conflict , And that saying these thing's 'IF They are true " Only hurt the child , And another piece of information when I removed myself from the conflict and did not react , My son was better off ,
  Let tell another long story
     I'm with My son and he tell's me some thing his mom was saying about me , I felt it was a test thing ,
   He then said ." Dad why does it make you mad when I tell you about mom Talking about you ?  
  said " I'm not mad "
He said " Yes you are I can tell how you get mad when you cuss more "
   " And your face looks like that "
  trust me I thought when I muttered AAAHHH ! while restraining my upset and anger that as long as I didn't say his mother or her name he would not know ,and that little boy called My BS right there!
  They know ! And when I started saying nice things about his mother to Him .  He changed and so did his mother ,
 Although the nicest things I could say was during conversaTions about his mom cooking , And I said " With the best smile I could muster <
  Your mom makes good cookies and I know she loves you and thats GooD
  I started to see a look of peace in My son , And not his little stress face around the times of the transfer .
  And this faint effort grew because It made My son Better !
 You should try it .
  Secondly It;s way better than vendictive because It made him love me more and be more relaxed around me " And he said things that made me realize that he kneW who was causeing the trouble , Like he said
 " My Moms the one causing the trouble " Because she's the one that talks bad about you and you don't . And I can see you aren't bad " !!
  I implore you to try this .
 And eventually the mother saw it and some good will started to come from that end ,
   I wonder  How My son would have fared if I never took My atty's advice and tried to say good things about the mother to My son ,
  I had a good atty and he state's there's better ways to deal with stuff than constant court action , And he does not do that unless neccessary ,
ANDS finally You will HAve to prove the abuse , And how it effects the child  and it's likely to be that you will have to show he abuses the child in order to make much process ,
 At some point the healthy person has to show good will , And constant court action stirs the bee's nest and it will never end ,
  I'm betting you should go watch a few  Custody trial's or part's then see the outcome , And you will see that all this stuff we stress about , The atty's know better than to bring it up .
  BOTH atty's in My trial spent more time trying to make their client look like a good parent then they did trying to make the other parent look bad ,
  And when I saw a stupid atty do this at a trial against My atty and one of his other clients ; A Man ' The mother lost Big hands down . AND DID NOT GET ATTY FEE'S

[lucky]

I just re-read CustodyIQ's post and he DIDN'T advise going for contempt to put the father in jail.  He advised going for contempt and said that it was POSSIBLE the father could go to jail.  I do NOT feel he was advising anything vindictive and I think that there are many others who feel the same way and probably many who feel as you do -- I don't see those people attacking CustodyIQ, however.

You know, you keep quoting your attorney and base your opinions and posts on YOUR case.  Perhaps you should keep in mind that SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE!  

Your attorney is NOT God and does NOT know everything, neither do you.  He/she knows his/her area (geographically).

Perhaps in this case, contempt with a threat of jailtime will be what this particular parent NEEDS to get off his ass and do the right thing.  

Perhaps you are right and this would backfire.

In any case, EVERYONE should have a right to post their opinions without having anyone else say "Don't do that, it's bad" and trashing them and their opinion.  You could have just said that you didn't agree and (nicely & politely) enumerated your reasons why.

Quite simply EVERYONE'S opinion is JUST as valid as everyone else's.  Even if you don't agree with it.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[CustodyIQ]

Guy,

I'm not quite sure what buttons I pushed, but clearly you're projecting quite a bit of your own issues upon me.

You are the ONLY person who has ever expressed dissatisfaction to me for the help I try to provide to folks who are seeking feedback.

Further, I also happen to be a moderator on another board that offers support to fathers facing divorce and child custody issues, and it's a board run by a law firm.  (i.e., they apparently don't think that I'm a feminazi, per your atrocious, bigoted term -- do you even contemplate how offensive it is to call someone a Nazi?!).

It's possible that they're all wrong, and you're right.  But not probable.

There is a far cry between accountability and vindictiveness.

I suggested that a mother may want to hold a seeming deadbeat father accountable for failing to comply with court orders.  The father in that case is the only one responsible for consequences that will befall him.

Not all fathers are good fathers.  Not all mothers are bad mothers.  And not every situation is identical to yours, Gipsy.

But if you get some sort of satisfaction trashing people who disagree with your perspective, I guess that's what you must do.

[MYSONSDAD]

Everyone has different perspectives. Maybe that is why SPARC is unique. Many thoughts and suggestions based on personal experience.

If everyone shares ideas, the poster can then pick out what they feel will help them and leave the rest.

Gipsy shares what most fathers face, he does not hold back, pretty straight forward. And on the other hand, I learn from reading your  posts, Custody IQ.

It is all a learning process, education and keeping informed. What might work for some, will not help the next.

Working together, sharing ideas, that will only help benefit all of us....

We need to stay focused for the common good.

[gipsy]

yeah you pushed my buttons ; The reason is the mother in my case tried the contempt over child support , and I had one choice , Pay it all and be too broke to fight for the right to see my son or take a loan , Wich I did , And the mother did not cooperate with my voluntary effort to initiate support , And as a rsult contested every thing at great expense
  And as the original post said she was gone for 6 months , I believe , I'll re read it
  My sons mother also disappeared , Maybe I'm reading the writeng on the wall . So I pissed you off ,
  But I don't believe the approach you suggested because , Of the following
 When you subtract the issue of child custody , The law concerning debt is very different , As in you go to court get a judgement, garnishment, lien And whatever the next step is  to seize assets , I run a buiseness with sizeable one time payments and one time up front expenses , If I was indeed jailed during this process it would seriously flaw the intent to make the money to pay support , I would have say a$ 10,000 to 12,000$, job where the customer would have to get another contractor , Or if some one doesn't pay , Then consequently I am broke for a period untill these large sums are paid  ,
     However Seizing assets , Or applying liens Is a viable non destructive Approach , And gets the money to the mother ,
  In My case My atty told me to not worry about jail time and the Judges know this process , Atty said " If the guy has a job and the judge throws them in jail, they are back in court on contempt again because they lost there job " And those are the reasons I see proposeing jail time as destructive and vendictive , Not that some time it may be necessary to some people , But their are clear alternatives to get the money with out  The obligor going to jail and losing much more ,
  However when it comes to child support The suggestion of jail time suddenly comes into play , Why do we not take the route to collect a debt that is the usual , Instead of jail time? ,
  The reason I see the direct ascent into jail time is we don't know if the father is in the same position , that would preclude him from paying an atty to get his visits , or: being behind in child support , That is an excrutiating position , If you have ever been there you would know the pain ,
   Secondarily I could not throw My debtors in jail as a ripple effect ,
 You think if I told the judge " I was jailed because  Home depot did not cut me my subcontactor check this month , So now I want the bookeeper to serve along with me because , Their faulty bookeeping .

  I think not !
   And what woul;d the Judge say , No sir jail time is not for people that owe a debt  to a child support obligor Contractor    And last :if this woman married a man that has zero assets , And can't keep a job I have zero sympathy for her position ,
   Taking these things into consideration Of course you hit a nerve ,
  I had zero choices available , Pay The atty  , If I didn't, he intended to with draw , Or pay child support , You wiegh the scale wich would you do ?
  The next part of the mess was her lying atty convinced the Commissioner to believe My Income was based on the adjusted gross of My buiseness income , And was Impossible for me to pay based on a adjusted gross income of $120,000 Per year , If you have run a small buiseness you would know that you get about 30% =$40,000
This was an intentional move to cause trouble via  An unreasonable child support order ,
   Wich I in no way could pay , she and her atty knew it ,
  So again I state with more facts of the crap people pull reguarding child support , The saying " She's a victim and He isn't paying and He makes $120,000 per year and going to court on contempt over the Issue , Even the commissioner saw through it and said she wasn't going to touch it and it had to go to trial
  Then at trial , Where they had to enter real testimony under oath , Her and her atty testified to the real numbers on the 1040 that I recieve from My own buiseness , Showing that they knew the right number all along ,
 Again Unless you have ever had these type of tricks pulled , And they flew you may think , If the guy didn;t pay he was a dead beat , Well Try  a total of 940$ A month on for size, based on fictitious numbers ,
   At this point of explanation Are you thinking I should have been jailed over the fictitous numbers , Would you advise that ?
   And the conclusion was , After the money was spent going to court for every issue , Guess what at trial ,
  The judge saw the whole issue period ,
   And As I have said before 'when her atty asked for $20,000 in atty fee's  The Judge said " I see Mr Gypsy's part of this as a reaction " And If this comes back to me we will see whom Gets atty fee's "
  SOOOO It serves to say NONE OF HER contempts Served any purpose And she paid her atty $$$$ to do all these court actions , And the one that suffered uneccesarily is My son , When proper advice on the issue is to get a garnishment , Lien or judgement or what ever [Not jail time ]
   And the big question that really is in My mind is this , If she has the money to be making all these court actions then , Why doesn't she just wait till trial and get a judgement , And last but not least it is clear to me that the long term vendictive measure : If I dare to say: would be to go to the judge at trial with these Issue's : Because you can't try the same case twice , So the judge won't be able to really view the info from previuos court actions , Or this was the case for me ,
  So I repeat what is the issue to get the money ,? or get some one in jail . Wich I can nearly garuntee the judge wont put some one in jail for the first time child support contempt , this is reserved for a last resort because the judge knows how destructive it is to go to jail and lose your house, job, car payment etc , We really don't think the judge just say's Jail time when there are alternatives . If she asked for jail time she would be asking for a long battle of wills ,