New to this board and despretely need advise.....

[scott35467]

Hi, I'm new to this board and actually a child support lady referred me to you guys saying she was sickened by how the court system has let us down. My fiance is a father of 3 girls who hasn't been been allowed to see them in almost 8 years....Right after his divorce she started not being home, going out of town, lieing it was not his weekend,  etc. when we went to pick them up. We filed police reports, etc. but the police finally got tierd of coming out to see no one was home or her telling them it was not our weekend (they couldn't tell from divorce papers if it was our weekend or not so they wouldn't make her let us have the girls)and stopped coming, they said it was a civil dispute and taxpayers money was being wasted.  Well without police reports we had  no proof so there went any hope of contempt of court charges, let alone she drained us financially so we couldn't afford to get a lawyer.  Well being honest he said "@#%& it, if i'm not seeing them i'm not paying childsupport" and hasn't done so in a few years.  He loves his girls and want to see them but she has made it impossible, she even went so far as filing phone harassment charges because he called them to tell them good-night! So he has an open warrent for his arrest (this happened about 6 years ago but warrent is still there.) We have no clue what to do at this point. He wants to see his girls or something we are nowing paying child support again of about $125 per week for children we ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SEE!  AND NO ONE CARES! Please any help???? P.S. we live in Toledo OH. Dawn and Scott

[tjraid18]

  Ouch!!! Sorry to hear. It's almost criminal the way people can just use the system and get away with it AND YOUR RIGHT, NOBODY CARES!!!!! Keep trying, sometimes all it takes is that one person in the right place who does care-- to make the diffence. I hope you find more advice than just mine here, caus I don't have a lot of answers. Just some advice. Be carefull. For example if your fiance were to try to contact his daughters while they were away from their mother, like at school, it could lead to more legal trouble. Especially if shes making up stuff to keep them away from him. Know that she can say anything and untill dad proves it's wrong the court will consider it as true. You'll have to file for visits through the courts and it's a process. You can do this without a lawyer, you just have to ask a lot of questions. Keep good records of all your efforts and denied visits. One thing I did that worked for awhile was to send a letter to "mom" requesting a visit when it was my time ---- ahead of the scheduled visit. Then make copies of the letter and send a copy to some sort of legal agency(the court, a mediator, attorney, or whoever you can think of) Let the "mom" know in the letter that you are sending and keeping copies. That might work. It will definitely piss her off and escalate the war which might not be good for you guys in your situation. But it's not about war, it's about being able to love your own children, who you are helping support. keep that in mind and try to show that your keeping that in mind when your doing your court stuff and theoretically you will have some success. Best wishes.

[mango]

On this sparc website there is a spot for a form letter for denied visitation. Sparc article archives>practical tips and techniques
or http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/index.html


Re-write it to suit you situation, but it's a start. List out all teh weekends you missed, then go to the court house ask teh clerk of courts for a contempt form, and fill it out, staple your chart of missed dates as you evidence for contempt, and any other evidence. (police reports etc).

(A freind of mine purchases something on her trip so she can prove she was there to pick up teh child in that area, by keeping her receipts as evidence)

It should only cost you filing fees. You can always ask an attorney for some language to represent you self better. Sometime sthey will help for free, some for a small fee.

Be persistent, you have a right o see your children, but it is a separate issue then support. Keep it separate or that will burn you.

Hope that helps....
Good luck.

>>>

From: (name)
  To: (BM)
  Date: (today's date)
  Re: Denial of parenting time

 Dear BM,

I'm sure you realize that I consider my time with (names) to be extremely special and valuable beyond measure. She is a part of my family, and my parenting time is an important part of all of our lives. In our last hearing on this matter, equal parenting time was ordered by the courts, and schedule was created to be followed.

In practice, however, you have failed to comply with the parenting schedule outlined in our agreement and have taken upon yourself to attempt to reduce my portion of parenting time. To demonstrate, I've prepared this table:



<>

Because of your actions, I've had far less than my allotted time with (child). It also makes it extremely difficult to plan the kinds of activities we like to do on these occasions.

The conditions and restrictions you have placed on these visits violate the court ordered schedule and are not acceptable. You have your own parenting time to schedule activities for (child name) as you see fit, please allow me to do the same with my parenting time.

I have been flexible in the past and allowed you additional time for >>>>>>, and various other days with the this schedule (for example, when special events occur), but I expect reasonable advance notice and compensatory time. I also reserve the "right of refusal" on all such changes in the court ordered schedule. I hope that we can reach agreement on these issues without involving a third party, but understand that I will do whatever is necessary so I can spend my parenting time with (childname).
      Respectfully,
      (your name)

CC: her attorney
CC: The court clerk at the courthouse

[scott35467]

Thanks for the advise on the letter, though I have no clue who to send a copy to.  What really sucks about this is that her new husband's (the man she was having a 2-year affair with at time of divorce) best friend is an attorney so all their legal fees are FREE! So they have no problem dragging us into court again and again as it's not costing them a red cent! The court counselers are USELESS! I tried and tried with them but all they did was slap her on the hands and told her not to interfer with visitation and then told my fiance that he should straighten up and try to be nicer to her and she wouldn't interfer! WHAT A JOKE! They absolutely refuse to even talk to the children saying that they were too young to be brought into it and that we should be grown-up enough to have not even mentioned talking to them. My goodness they were between they were 5, 7, and 9 NOT babies! She is a tiny little thing who looks like an angel and can put the tears on in a heartbeat but is the DEVIL IN DISGUISE! She has financially ruined us and no one cares that we can't afford to fight anymore, why they sit back and laugh about it.  It's so frustrating.  If you have ANY ideas as to who to send a copy of this letter to that would be so helpful.  Thanks,Dawn

[tjraid18]

  Sometimes you come to a dead end. Then you have to put it in four wheel drive. I'm not sure who you could send it to, especially if his ex's whatever is a lawyer. I was going to say maybe her lawyer, buuutttt---- NO. Somewhere in here there is a post that talks about people you can send it to. Sending a letter is just one example of thinking outside the box. there may be other things you can do. Each case is different and has different possibilities to some extent. Maybe there are other things you could try by reading other people here's posts. I'll think about it some more, or maybe someone else will come up with something. Good luck!

[tjraid18]

  Mango, I like the reciept idea!! thanks for sharing.

[grazer]

Dawn,
There are several things that you can do. You should write letters to his ex requesting visitation. Send letters certified/return reciept requested. Keep file for these letters and file for certified mail and for the return reciepts. If his ex does not accept the letters and the letters/return reciept is returned with her not accepting the letters. This will be very good documentation for you all to prove that his ex is refusing visitation or at least thwarting his attempt at visitation.

Also, if his ex responds to the letters in writting and states in her response letters to you all, that she is not willing to allow "any" visitation. This would the best evidence for you all to show that she is thwarting his visitation.

Do not accept phone calls from his ex regarding your letters to the ex. You all wish to have ex to put in letters/writting what she is doing (refusing the visitation). By her putting in writting that she is refusing visitation, regardless if there is court ordered visitation or not, you all will have the proof that you need to get someone to help you all. And it won't matter if ex has free legal advice or not. By her putting in writting that she is refusing visitation, she will have sent to you all the evidence of what she is doing and it will be hard for her dispute that she's a perfect angel. Yes the courts/judge may just slap her hand for not allowing visitation. But with numerous times of ex writting and not allowing visitation, a judge will finally become angry enough to punish ex and the judge will attempt to stop ex's actions. But it may take several times with/before a judge before the judge will take any action.

But if ex does attempt to communicate with you all via phone. Call ex and leave a message on her answer machine/voice mail, tell the ex to please leave voice messages on you all's answer machine/voice mail. That you all will not accept her calls, but will accept her phone calls via yall's answer machine. If the ex does leave messages on yall's answer machine/voice mail and does state that she is not allowing visitation. Then record the voice messages, which is perfectly legal (in my state) and make written record of when the message was received and what the message was responding to. These recorded voice messages are also very good proof to show that the ex is not allowing visitation.

Also, write to the kids letters. Write them and tell that the father misses them terriably and that he only wishes to see them and have some time with them. I'm pretty sure that the kids are being told by the mom, lies that the father doesn't wish to see them and ect.

One trick that I have used to get my ex to at least accept written letters. Is call the ex's home phone and leave message for the kids that the father is going to send the kids some money in the mail to them. Send them each $10.00 (cash) or something. Leave repeated messages on her phone, so in case the kids listen to the voice message and erase it, that the ex will hear at least one of the messages left by him. If his ex is true to form, she will all be to eager to get the letter that you send, so as to intercept the money that you are attempting to send to the kids. In the letter that you send the money, send your letter requesting visitation. Send the letter again, certified/return reciept, and at least you'll have proof that she accepted a letter asking for visitation. Yes there's a chance that the kids won't actually ever receive the money that you all send, but it's money (in my opinion) well spent, to secure evidence that ex's not allowing visitation or at least not responding to requests for visitation.

Something that you must understand when dealing with ex's like the one you all are dealing with. Nobody and I mean nobody is going to feel sorry for the father not seeing his kids. There are too many walk away father's in this country. In cases like yall's, you've got to expose the ex for what she is. And you must have solid proof of her actions to expose her. Once you have solid evidence of her actions, then you will have the weapons you all need to garner help from the courts/judge's. Without solid and direct evidence of ex's actions, most persons/judges will view the situation as your word against ex's word. And most of the time when a ex attempts to portray it's self as a perfect angel, you will be required to expose the true person that she is.

Also, you must make attempts (legally and written) to at least establish some visitation. Nobody is going to help you all, if you just don't do anything and then say it's not right and what she is doing is wrong (don't mean this as being ugly to you).  You've got to document and stand up and fight it, or the father will be forever kept away.

[tjraid18]

 Another thing you might try is having your visitation request letter notarized. Hope this helps.