Rules and respect issues

[Mellybug]

Hi, again!

This time it's a DIFFERENT matter causing me to post! The PBFH has been put in her place and is being a good little psycho (for now).

Here is what happened: The children spent 5 days with BM (it was her weekend). When they are there they basically have no rules. When they are here, they USUALLY follow the rules rather impressively.

Last night we let them stay up 1/2 hour later because of a cartoon they (OK, we all) were into. The next morning we were met with grumpy and uncooperative children. We handled it in our usual fashion, we wouldn't toelrate it.

Tonight I had them take baths because they smelled so bad of cigarette smoke from being with their mom that I couldn't stand to even brush SD's hair.

The son did NOT want to dry his hair, and decided to pretend to ignore us and watch TV. I turned off the TV and told him to do it. He proceeded to scream at me, which is intolerable, and I told him so in a very firm voice. He stomped, cried, and pitched a fit, but did as he was told. Then, he picked up the phone and called his mother (without permission - he's 6), and told her that we were being mean to him. She encouraged him, of course.

I told my boyfriend I was not going to tuck the boy in because of the attitude tonight. He asked him to come down and apologize to me, which SS begrudingly did. He shouted at me, "SORRY!" I very calmly told him that I knew it wasn't genuine, therefore, at this time I was not going to accept that. He screamed at me, "SORRY!" again. Very soothingly, I explianed to him that I was not going to accept this at this time. I suggested we try again in the morning when he's calmer.

He went back upstairs and started bawling because I didn't accept it. My boyfriend told him that he heard the way he apologized, and it was not convincing, and why don't we try again in the morning. I told my boyfriend thank you for the effort, however, I'd rather have no apology at all than one that was forced. I understand and appreciate the fact that he is forcing the child to respect me (a HUGE milestone, let me tell you), but that I was not going to force the boy into apologizing to me.

Here's my problem: he used the phone without permission to call his mother SOLELY to complain about us. I was raised to NEVER use the phone without permission, and feel that this is a good habit to get into. Secondly, I do not think that it is acceptable to use our phone to call his mother JUST to complain about us. Petty, sure, but he'll be at her house tomorrow, he can complain about us all he wants then. How far off base am I?

I know that I can not expect the children to be raised the same way as I was (with was with a HUGE amount of respect for other people), however, I must say it was one of the BEST lessons my mother ever taught me. My boyfriend agrees that his son should NOT be allowed to use the phone just to call his mother to complain about us. He doesn't think that calling without permission is such a bad thing, however, acknkowledges that I do, and we've come to an impass (I'm willing to overlook it, he's insisting that they get persmisson - it's cute).

Help?

Mellybug

[lucky]

Whether my decision was good or bad, I told the kids that they could call their mom whenever they wanted -- UNLESS it was to complain about me or dh.  If that was their only reason for calling then they had to wait till they were calm.  Usually they didn't call her once they were calm.  My skids are older though.

Our kids have to ask to use the phone because they do not pay the bill.  Unless we're expecting a very important call that we can't miss, we say almost always say yes.

[sweetnsad]

Well..I have to say that the same rule applies here, whether it's my kids or his kids...they aren't allowed to use the phone without permission.  Our kids are 8, 6, 6, 4 and an infant...so obviously, they are too young to use the phone without us knowing about it.  My skids are allowed to call their mother if they ask to..which isn't often...but they aren't allowed to complain about us or our rules.  If they want to complain to her when they get home, which they often do, fine.  

I also agree with you not wanting an apology if it has to be forced.  It's not a good habit for a child to get into to...they tend to think that if they are made to say they are sorry for something, then that makes everything ok...whether they meant the apology or not.  It doesn't teach them anything and only gets them off the hook for what they did in the first place.  Kids need to take responsibility for some of their actions, no matter what age they are.

Good luck with everything...:-)

[janM]

Kids feel insecure when there are no rules in place, and there is bound to be a transition period after spending time at bm's. That, combined with being overtired, was apparently a bad combination.

I'm wondering if the other thing is, that he notices a change in his dad, in that he is taking a more active role. He could be testing the waters.

Defintely do not allow them to complain to bm. At your house the rules are rules and you don't need her undermining your efforts.

I hope dad keeps up the good work.

[richiejay]

My boy tried this for years.  Everytime he was pissed at me or his step-mom, he wanted to call his mother to complain (because she, of course, loves to hear how unhappy he is here).  I think it was right around 6 that I told him that calling his mother was fine, but calling her only to complain about us was not ok.  It took a while, and I still find him wanting to do it (he's almost ten now), but he learned that I wouldn't tolerate being trash talked about.  I phrased it to him "if everytime you got me angry or upset and I called your friends parents (whom I'm friends with) and complained about you, how would you feel?"  It seemed to have an impact...good luck

[DK]

My SS called his mom ONCE to complain.  I heard him talk, when he hung up I turned around and hit redial and told her my side.  She didn't care or listen of course.  SS however did not like having both sides of the story told.  No more phone call complaints.

[dsm]

And further, let HIM be the one to set the rules, and be the one to turn the TV off, get the kids in bed, etc.  You are setting yourself up to be burned, hurt, and all around taken for granted.

The telephone thing - yeah, that would burn me, too, but again, your BF has to be the one to make the decision how his kids are going to act and be raised.  You can voice your opinion, but he needs to be the one to address it with the kids.  And you can have a united front by being there, but let him do the talking - not you.

[IceMountain]

I agree with all of you that kids need rules and discipline.  They strive for it.  Without these things in place, they do not have security.  They needs rules and discipline to help them feel loved, secure and a part of the family as a whole.

Whether their mom has rules or not, you are right to have rules... and enforce them... at your house.  Kids are very adaptable and even if they have different rules at both houses, they DO know what is accpetable behavior for each home... Just the same as they know acceptable behavior for school, shopping, church and all the other activities families and children participate in.  The trick is to be consistent and to follow through.  Not only will it be easier to enforce rules when you have consistency, but the kids will learn to trust you and what you say.

The only thing that is bugging me about this post is... That you refused to tuck the child in after he screamed at you and threw a fit.  I haven't been able to get this scenario out of my mind since I read this post last week.

Now, before you attack me :) , please hear me out!  All children need to feel security.  This is especially true in diverse families like the ones we all are a part of.  It is perfectly natural for all children to test the limits of, and try to push adults.  It is also perfectly natural for us, as adults, to react to their actions and words.

In my opinion, you should not deny your SS being tucked in.  Children are striving so much to be accepted and this is especially true in a stressful family situation.  It is our job to make sure they always feel loved and secure, no matter how angry or frustrated we are.

Next time, you might want to consider tucking him in anyway.  As you tuck him remind him how much you care about him.  Tell him you love him.  Tell him that you are a family, and you must work together as a family and that to do that you need to have rules.  Kiss him good night and turn and walk away.  My guess is that before you even get 1/2 way to the door your SS will stop you with a sincere apology... and you'll be leaving the room with tears in your eyes because you will be reaffirmed as to why you are there.  

...a little to cheesey???

Even if he doesn't apologize to you, he will not fall asleep thinking you 'hate' him or that you 'don't love him'.  

I have a 6 year old stepson.  He's the apple of my eye!!!  We have it tough sometimes.  Actually, it can be pure hell!  But, the one thing that child will never have to doubt, is my love for him.   He knows he can count on me to be there for him.  He also knows that I will follow-thru with everything I say, and because of that, he respects me.

Mellybug, I've followed some of your posts here and I know you are a very loving and devoted stepmom!!!!  I applaud you for the hell you have put up with in your situation.  I truly hope everything works out for you and your 'family'.

[Mellybug]

I know that I did a wrong thing by not tucking him in, and I am not the kind to take criticizm harshly.

I must say, though, that since that day, he has been extremely respectful, and (with some gentle reminders) is actually being quite an amazing guy! He and I have found a nitch with which we are comfortable. I'm sure it helps that I have not allowed BM to goad me anymore, so she's stopped the PAS against my boyfriend and myself. This makes it easier for him, I'm sure.

Thanks for caring enough to post.

Mellybug

[IceMountain]

Mellybug,

You have to go with what works for you, I'm glad things are going well with you and SS and that you have a 'nitch' worked out between you.