Parenting time expeditor

[Crockpot]

I called my ex last night to try one more time.  She finally agreed to the days I first requested.  I'm sure it was her plan all along to be a pain in the ass and then give in.  She ended the conversation with "next time don't call me unless it's important."  I see where her priorities are...  I think she's just an unhappy person and likes to spead it around.

Either way I get my kids for a school break for the first time since we divorced.  

My SO has more flexiable hours at work and will be my back up when I can't be there for future visits, but she'll be out of town this time.  

I like the idea of writing something up and asking my ex to sign so we can submit to the courts.  It's worth a try.

Thanks for all the advice!

[Crockpot]

I posted this on my state board (MN) but haven't gotten any responses.  Has anyone had to use a parenting time expeditor? Just wondering about the process.  Does it really work?  Is it fair?  

My ex and I JUST signed a new order which gives me 1/2 of school breaks. The order says the time is split in coordination with both parents. My ex is telling me that I have to take the kids Wed-Sunday. I'm unable to take Thursday and Friday off from work and gave her two other options. She basically said, her way or no way. Since the kids just moved into this school district and the order was just signed in the last few weeks, Spring break came up without much notice or I would have day care options while I work.  She has no real reason that I know of to insist on the Wed-Friday time.

We have a clause that we'd use an expeditor to decide things that we can't. I didn't think we'd need it so soon. The order was just signed last month.  If she keeps this up it may be cheaper to go back to court to firm up the order.  It says we have to coordinate these shool breaks together.  

Any thoughts?

[notnew]

Lesson you've now learned. If it isn't spelled out it will be a problem.

Next time you'll know better.

You are going to either have to make SOME day care arrangement with someone (a family member, friend (trusted friend), SO) or take the hit and take off of work.

You need to get the order clarified for specific days. I think it would be best to switch off each year (you have first 1/2, she second one year and switch it the next).

good luck.

[mistoffolees]

We had a custody evaluation done and the evaluator recommended a "parenting coordinator" (he also recommended that this should be an attorney).

Both of our attorneys agreed that it was not necessary so we're not going to go through with it (at least for now. If we can't reach agreement in mediation, the judge may require that we use a parenting coordinator). Their reasoning was that it was time consuming and expensive and didn't really add any value if we can agree on timing ourselves.

The key is that in our case, I'm not signing off on mediation with dangling issues like this. My stbx will disagree with anything I say just to cause trouble, so if it's indefinite, it will be a problem. We're going to nail down everything before signing the final agreement.

My perception was that it's something like a mediator. While I don't know the specifics in your state, it would seem to me that if the two of you could sit down and work out an agreement using anyone as a mediator that the judge would be likely to OK it. The point of the exercise is more to reach an agreement rather than him caring exactly what the agreement looks like. Therefore, anyone who can help you to reach an agreement (trained mediator, pastor, whatever). I would suggest that you do so very soon and reach a permanent agreement rather than going through it repeatedly. There are proposed parenting agreements on this site that might help as a starting point.

[notnew]

They have an agreement Mist. It is just not specific.

The parenting coordinator is meant to be used in case of any conflicts and of course, because their order isn't specific, there are conflicts IMMEDIATELY.

Courts and their cohorts are so damned short sighted.

Spring break is happening now. I don't think they have time for a parenting coordinator. Also, if he has spoken with her about the issue of no day care available and he can't take off of work and her answer is still now, what good will any type of mediator do?  I have never seen a mediator work in a hostile situation.

Also, what in the world is she doing in the first half of spring break that is so GOD awful important? Nothing I bet. The goal is to get him to miss this time so that is why I said he needs to either make some type of arrangements or take off of work. If she is successful this time, she will do it again and again and again.

It just pisses me off.

[mistoffolees]

>They have an agreement Mist. It is just not specific.

Then it's useless.

>
>The parenting coordinator is meant to be used in case of any
>conflicts and of course, because their order isn't specific,
>there are conflicts IMMEDIATELY.

And my advice was clear. Use the parenting coordinator ONCE to clarify all the likely issues rather than trying to use them every single time there's a conflict.

>
>Courts and their cohorts are so damned short sighted.

Why is this the court's fault? The two people didn't make their agreement detailed enough and they're having a problem. The court gave them a way to solve the problem.  What do you expect the court to do?

>
>Spring break is happening now. I don't think they have time
>for a parenting coordinator. Also, if he has spoken with her
>about the issue of no day care available and he can't take off
>of work and her answer is still now, what good will any type
>of mediator do?  I have never seen a mediator work in a
>hostile situation.

That's hardly the mediator's fault. The options are to either go back to court or use the mediator. The mediator will be far cheaper - particularly if they do what I suggested and deal with the issues all at once instead of every time something comes up.

>
>Also, what in the world is she doing in the first half of
>spring break that is so GOD awful important? Nothing I bet.

Perhaps not. So?

You're taking the position that she should give him everything he wants or she's unreasonable. She's saying that he should give her everything she wants or he's unreasonable. Seems to me that BOTH positions are unreasonable - which is why the court ordered mediation.

And, besides, a good mediator CAN help to resolve a hostile situation. I've seen it happen.

>The goal is to get him to miss this time so that is why I said
>he needs to either make some type of arrangements or take off
>of work. If she is successful this time, she will do it again
>and again and again.

Wouldn't it be better to sit down with the mediator and get a permanent solution?

>
>It just pisses me off.

Probably just as much as it pisses me off when one side assumes that they're 100% entitled to everything they want and the other side is the unreasonable one.

[Crockpot]

Her goal is to get me to miss my time.  I believe that 100%.  The parenting expeditor is to issue me make up time if he/she believes my ex was unreasonable in not agreeing to an arrangment for Spring break.

My ex doesn't have anything going on next week, she's not even working.  She's just trying to be a pain the the butt.  I can take time off work, but not at the end of the week so I gave her two senairos that would work for me. She said take them Wed-Friday or nothing.

Mediation is not an option.  We've done it, she was impossible and then canceled our last appointment.  Spring and Winter breaks are the only issues in our parenting time that we have to coordinate.  I'm considering going to court pro se to settle this issue.  It's going to happen over and over.  The kids are young (8 and 5) and I don't want this stuggle every year.  I'd rather a judge lock me into first half of break or 2nd half then to deal with my ex.  At least then I get my time with my kids.    

[mistoffolees]

>Mediation is not an option.  We've done it, she was impossible
>and then canceled our last appointment.  Spring and Winter

But wasn't that before she had a court order to mediate? If she ignored a court order for mediation, she's in contempt.

>breaks are the only issues in our parenting time that we have
>to coordinate.  I'm considering going to court pro se to
>settle this issue.

Use her refusal to go to mediation against her if there was a court order to attend.

[notnew]

>They have an agreement Mist. It is just not specific.

>Then it's useless.

Exactly.

>
>The parenting coordinator is meant to be used in case of any
>conflicts and of course, because their order isn't specific,
>there are conflicts IMMEDIATELY.

>And my advice was clear. Use the parenting coordinator ONCE to >clarify all the likely issues rather than trying to use them every single >time there's a conflict.

Some people love conflict. Your sugesstion sounds great, but won't work if one side doesn't want to resolve issues.

>
>Courts and their cohorts are so damned short sighted.

>Why is this the court's fault? The two people didn't make their >agreement detailed enough and they're having a problem. The court >gave them a way to solve the problem. What do you expect the court >to do?

The courts KNOW that open ended, vaguely worded agreements almost NEVER work. I believe their only goal in this is to feed their industry. Lawyers write up agreements they KNOW won't work. It is all driven to put more money in their pockets in the end and NOT what is best for the kids. I believe there should be STANDARD orders that automatically go in place no matter how amicable the parties are. IF they agree to deviations from the standard orders, then good for them, but the basic foundation is in place to protect all parties involved, even the CHILDREN.

>
>Spring break is happening now. I don't think they have time
>for a parenting coordinator. Also, if he has spoken with her
>about the issue of no day care available and he can't take off
>of work and her answer is still no, what good will any type
>of mediator do? I have never seen a mediator work in a
>hostile situation.

>That's hardly the mediator's fault. The options are to either go back to >court or use the mediator. The mediator will be far cheaper - >particularly if they do what I suggested and deal with the issues all at >once instead of every time something comes up.

I never said it was the mediators fault. I SAID I have never seen a mediator work when one parent is hostile.

>
>Also, what in the world is she doing in the first half of
>spring break that is so GOD awful important? Nothing I bet.

>Perhaps not. So?

Well, if she doesn't have solid plans that can't be changed, wouldn't it be in the best interest of the children for her to be flexible to make sure the CHILDREN have adequate day care AND that the source of CHILD SUPPORT not jeopradize his employment by being forced to take days off of work JUST BECAUSE SHE FELT LIKE BEING A BITCH?

>You're taking the position that she should give him everything he >wants or she's unreasonable. She's saying that he should give her >everything she wants or he's unreasonable. Seems to me that BOTH >positions are unreasonable - which is why the court ordered mediation.

>And, besides, a good mediator CAN help to resolve a hostile situation. >I've seen it happen.

What you've seen is a hostile parent who was "beat" down by the facts and finally caved in to what should have been a simple solution. I have had this happen with my ex more than once. She has fought, made assertions about the orders that are untrue while the coordinator continued to remind her, "that is not what this order says", until finally in frustration, BM agreed to my resolution, but not willingly.

>The goal is to get him to miss this time so that is why I said
>he needs to either make some type of arrangements or take off
>of work. If she is successful this time, she will do it again
>and again and again.

>Wouldn't it be better to sit down with the mediator and get a >permanent solution?

Yes, it would be better to be able to sit down with a mediator and work things out. But, it is obvious to me that she is incapable of working anything out with him directly so I don't see how a mediator can help to resolve the issues being that there is no solid orders giving specifics on his parenting times. Until he has specific orders, she will continue to be difficult. She sees an order that says "as agreed by the parents" and says "I won't agree therefore, I can make him pay for our failed relationship". It is NOT about the child, it is about HER ANGER.

>
>It just pisses me off.

>Probably just as much as it pisses me off when one side assumes that >they're 100% entitled to everything they want and the other side is the >unreasonable one.

Mist,  you are getting confrontational with me. I NEVER said he was entitled to everything he WANTED. I said that it would be in the best interest of the children IF she were flexible. However, she is NOT so the only resolution for him in the short term is to bite the bullet, figure out a way even if he has to take off of work AND file paperwork to have the order clarified immediately. And, yes, if mediation has been ordered and she failed to attend, then he can try to go for a contempt as well.

Mist, I have been in this game for over 7 years. You are still in the early stages. I have seen your postings recently that your STBX is taking actions that could endanger your career. Do you really think the court is going to stop this? They may, but in all likelyhood, won't. My ex failed to attend mediation and parenting classes as ordered and court did NOTHING.

The sad thing for the parent who is trying to maintain a relationship with the child and dealing with a hostile CP is that it is VERY easy for the HP (hostile parent) to give the impression that both of them are hostile. The end result could very easily be the court seeing both of them as responsible for the conflict and he will get no resolution ever. AND this will allow her to make all the decisions regarding the type of relationship the child has with NCP thus enabling her to create the optimum PAS environment. Been there done that. You won't convince me otherwise.

Co-parenting works ONLY when both parties keep the needs of the children in the forefront and put their prior relationship with each other, no matter what happened, in the past. Too many parents are hostile and the courts, attorneys, paid expert counselors, etc. encourage this behavior to fatten their bank accounts. There are relatively few checks and balances in place that identify a hostile parent (be it CP or NCP) and exact real consequences for the behavior. I also believe the "parenting classes" most courts require as part of divorce are primers showing exactly what to do for HP.

Mist, you cannot look at life with blinders on. Most often, when posters end up here, things have been getting pretty bad for them in the courts and in dealing with the opposing side. When I read posts on here, I assume a lot of things have already happened. Sometimes, I am wrong, often I am not. I've been through way too much to not recognize the signs and symptoms of this diesease our lives are being infected with that we are exposed to through our contact with family court systems.

Not trying to pick a fight.

[mistoffolees]

>Mist, you cannot look at life with blinders on.

True. My posts were merely meant to convey that same sentiment to you. Your post looks extremely one sided to me and I said so. If you don't think it applies to you, then you're free to ignore it.

>
>Not trying to pick a fight.

Then don't.