Once again, only the guy gets screwed.....

[Brent]

>I don't feel she did get away with it only because she was a
>mother, it was because of the law spoken of above.

Great, so there's a law to protect a mother when she does something like this. Splendid.  


>but murder is murder and she should be held
>responsible for it in some other way.

No argument here.

[Davy]

Bolivar ... I think you're right or should I say half right.

The article stated "According to that law, only the person making the intentional conduct against the pregnant individual is criminally liable. The pregnant individual herself, however complicit in the termination, is not."

I suspect the prosecutor is applying "the flavor" of the statue as written.
If the word 'only' was removed from the first sentence and the second sentence was removed entirely then both persons would be held accountable for their intentional conduct against the pregnant individual (ie fetus/child).  In other words, the fetus/child is not protected from  the pregnant individual and this alone MAY be the catalyst for all bias and prejudice against children and fathers.
 

[Davy]

Thanks Olanna !

For sake of clarity I said observations from life experiences rather than assumptions.  I also said that it was 'probable' the female was the more sexually aggressive one based on her apparent control in the relationship and on a well documented idealism that discounts the myth that males are the dominant sexual predators.  

I also raised two boys.  I think they were both considered the 'nude hot tub diving champs' in their high school years....hot doggin it and showing off as guys might do.  My daughter was majorly under the other parents influence.  Had she been under her father's influence there is a good chance she would still be a virgin today or so I would like think.

[Davy]

Hey Cathy !

I wouldn't say you were attacked so much as asked where in the world you came up with that stuff about the girl being more sexually aggressive. Seemed to be out of left field and pretty sexist. So what exactly lead you to believe the female in the article was more sexually aggressive??

*** I said "probably" based on wisdom that generally speaking females are far more sexually aggressive than males.  This particular female appears to be substantially in control of the relationship... I guess I can't imagine any one allowing oneself to be thumped with a ball bat in the adobmen over a 2 week period unless they were in control. ***  

If that it the TRUTH based on your observations, than we haven't been observing the same things. I have observed teens, both male and female, that are all different and unique. So far as sexually aggressive - I've seen it in both sexes.

***  Oh I've had the same experiences as you but probably over a much longer period of time and with observations, experiences, and commumication with both sexes of varying ages, etc ***  

And no, I was never a 16 yr old boy. So are you saying that when you were a 16 yr old boy, the 16 yr old females were sexually aggressive to you?

*** Absolutely !  and 13, 14, .. 18 .. 35 ..45 .. 55 and now it is often the 75 year olds ..damn it anywho.***
 
I was a 16 yr old girl - and I can assure you, the guys I were around were a helluva lot more sexually aggressive than I was - or my female friends. Of course there were exceptions........

*** ah c'mon ..be honest.  16 yr old females just don't talk about it like 16 yr old males. ***

But regardless, I certainly wouldn't make the claim that any particular individual was more sexually aggressive based strictly on their gender.

*** I would and did ***

Oh - and the 2 teenage girls in my house. I am very open and honest with them about sex and fully expect them to come to me when they are ready to have sex to make sure they are prepared. I have even told them I do not expect them to be virgins when they get married, and that I don't even think it is a good idea........but that's a whole 'nother topic!

*** notta nother topic at all.  Most parents (but especially fathers) fully expect and hold out hope that the daughters remain as virgins and strongly suggest the sons do as well ... I think that's called celebacy or something like that.  You may have just substantiated all my posts ***

[ivehadit]

The reason NEITHER of them were charged with murder is because Michigan law doesn't recognize a fetus as an individual until it is at 21 weeks gestation. What was quoted in the article is only part of the statute.

The reason Michigan places it at 21 weeks is so that it doesn't interfere with abortion "rights".

If the fetus was that or above, she would have been held liable as well. Thanks to the state covering their a** on abortion, she gets away, and he gets felony assault on her - no charge gets applied to the fact that the fetus was miscarried due to both of them being idiots.

[janM]

A woman can do what she likes to her body and her unborn child (abort it), even if she has another person harm the fetus, no crime is committed on her part.

However if the harm is done without the mother's consent they can be charged with assault or murder (ie, Lacy Peterson).

Not saying I agree...

[kitten]

I had a friend that was pregnant and used to punch herself in the abdomen and have her bf do it and anyone else that would to try to lose the baby.  I did not report it, but I did cease contact with her.  
She had the baby and a couple more from other fathers from what I understand.  I think it happens more than we want to know.

[cathy]

I would not assume an individual was more sexually aggressive strictly based on sex.....or at least, I would try hard not to because I try to avoid stereotyping.  

BUT if we are going to speak in generalities, I would think that males tended to be more sexually aggressive than females.  But that is strictly my opinion, I have not researched the topic.   I don't know, but I really think the majority of people would tend to feel that way.

Oh - and so far as when I was 16 - oh yeah, we females absolutely talked about it and thought about it.  But that doesn't fall under what I consider "sexually aggressive"!

And yes, I agree - I think most parents hope and encourage their kids to remain virgins.  I just don't happen to be one of those parents!  

Have a good one!!

[catherine]

I guess I can't imagine any one allowing oneself to be thumped with a ball bat in the adobmen over a 2 week period unless they were in control

Isn't that the M.O. for most battered people?  They stay for years and allow themselves to be beaten.  They are definately not the ones in control - they are being controlled.   Because we know so little about this case in particular, I don't think it's fair to assume that he or she was the one in control in their relationship.  It's possible they were both equally as guilty and equally as dumb and as equally in control!

[catherine]

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