Child support/custody

[Renee]

Does anyone know why the system is so unfair?  I happen to be on both ends of support.  I have four children that I am primary custodian of and receive $366 a month.  However, my current husband has five children and pays $1200 a month.  Keep in mind that my step children are with us on Wednesday evening from after school until 8:30 p.m. and they come back to our house Friday evening at 6:00 p.m. until Sunday evening at 6:oo p.m.  This is NOT every other week but every week.  We are blessed to have them that often and love it. We also get them every other week in the summer for an entire week.  We love the time with them but I don't see why we support my husband ex and her husband.  This is basicly what we do since when she has them they are in school most of the day or sleeping.  We all know kids cost the least at those times of the day.  My huband's ex cannot hold a job and receives reduced meals at school but she went and put three kids in braces and is working on the fourth.  My husband advised her that we cannot afford this before she did it but she went ahead anyway even though the shared parenting agreement said they are to agree on these issues.  She also gets to claim all five children for income tax purposes.  We end up paying in because I am a self employed daycare provider.   Now we are currently in the process of being sued by her for the orthodontia treatment that my husband didn't agree upon (it is cosmetic and not medically necessary).  So how is this fair?  I hardly get any support from my ex and when my current (and last) husband has to come up with more money besides the $1200 then I have to step up to the plate and not only come up with what my ex doesn't pay but what his ex somehow gets.  She says he is only hurting his children but what about all nine children when we have them almost the same amount of time?  There is more to the story but I will save that post for the custody topic?  Anyway, is this the normal or are we just getting a bad deal?  

[Sherry1]

modification.  Only the parent that has taken the child into the ortho is responsible for the bill.  Your DH cannot be held responsible by them if he did not sign a consent form.

[Renee]

We tried to get it modified but for some reason they don't seem to take in account that we have them as often as we do.  Sometimes it feels like they are not reading all of the information in front of them and assuming that we have them every other weekend as what is usually the case for visitation.  But, we have them Friday after school until Sunday at 6pm and on Wednesday evening.  As I said we want them that often and would love to have them more but we also need the means to support everyone and not support my husband ex and her new husband.  I certainlly don't see where the kids ever have anything to show for $1200 a month and there are times when we buy them what they need because she fails to do so.  We also miss out on the joy of buying things for them on a regular basis because we can't afford to give her all of that money and then still purchase everything else.  We do provide separate clothing for our house.  We want them to know this is their house too and they are not visitors.  I don't know why every father gets lumped in with the ones who DON'T take care of their kids and when they have a good father like my husband for some reason he gets punished for the mistakes of others and when his ex uses the kids as pawns she gets rewarded nicely for it.  As I said I am on both ends and recieve hardly anything for my children but yet my husband pays over a third of his income.  I am one of those women who would love to see the child support system made fair and would gladly help to change it.  It truly needs to be looked at case by case so that the dads who are deadbeat are accountable but the ones who are not get fair treatment.  Maybe someday.......

[CGS]

I would run the child support calculations and see if they are accurate.

In my state, MT, the courts only count nights spent in your home as a visitation day for child support calculations.  So even if you have the children from 7am to 9pmevery single day, those days still do not count as visitation days on the child support worksheet as they did not sleep at your home.  Your state may be different though.

If I were you I would pull out a calander, count the number of overnights the children are at your house, and run the calculations yourself to see how accurate the current #'s are.  

If there is a differnce of 30% you can request a downward modification (at least that's the threshhold in MT, your state might be slightly different)

[mistoffolees]

Why are you getting $366 for 4 children and your husband pays $1200 for 5? Obviously, you or your husband (or both) are making good incomes.

The way child support is supposed to work is that you figure out the child's needs (or the state does it for you). You then apportion those needs between the parents - with the one making the most money paying the most.

It's not a custody issue - it's an issue of what's fairest for the kids.

Are there pepole who abuse it? Sure. Someone can claim that they can't get a job in order to get more support. But I really don't think it happens as much as people think it does.

[Renee]

Actually, we live paycheck to paycheck unfortunately.   I have a home daycare and that income can change from month to month as it did this past couple of months when I lost $800 a month due to some change in circumstances for one of my families.  My ex works at the front desk of a local motel and makes minimum.   However, I am not money hungry and love the feeling that I am providing for my children.  My husband pays so much because it was figured without her working.  She is also remarried which I know has no bearing on figuring CS but there is no reason she can't work.  I will give her credit because she has worked here and there and as soon as she thinks CS will change she quits.  When she is working they have basically three incomes and we have one and a half.  We have nine kids and they have five.  We pay for extras for the kids and wish we could do more because we miss out on the joy of buying them things.  She also won't let my oldest step son live with us because she would lose some cs.  He is counting down the days until he is 18 and says he is afraid of her when she is home.  We live in a state where the cost of living is low and $1200 is alot.  That doesn't help us much in providing for nine children (4 who are here all the time and five that we have every weekend from Friday 6p.m until Sunday at 6 p.m.  We also have them on Wednesday after school until 8:30 p.m  It is not a normal visitation schedule.  We do feel blessed to have them that much time.  We just feel that the system is not fair in setting child support so high based on the amount of time spent.  We wouldn't care so much either if the money actually went to the kids but she has a reputation for spending money foolishly (bars, trips, new cars-2 to be exact, and many extras for her) she is very selfish and in the four years I have known her she has never once put her kids first.  I am not saying this because she is my husbands ex.  I would love it if we could get along and she put the kids first.  We are envious but happy for people who get to have it that way.  Simply put, we want to work and support our children not the ex.  Why does she get to sit around doing nothing when all of the kids are in school full time and we work so hard?  We both have full time jobs plus deliver newspapers starting at 4 am every morning.  The system is not fair and should look closer case by case not punish the good parents for the ones who are deadbeat.  She is deadbeat in a sense because she won't work to give them extra and the money she does get doesn't go to them.  I see the clothes they are wearing....etc.  She lives in basically low income housing and pays only $350 a month for her house which is the biggest payment outside of the new cars she had to have.  We would like a new car but our kids have needs.  We take care of them first.  Also, out of the nine children we only get to claim two for income taxes and they are both my biological children.  She made sure she would get that too.  Being self employed that doesn't help me much.  I guess it comes down to we all pay for others bad choices.

[mistoffolees]

Something doesn't add up. Your husband works for minimum wage and has to pay $1200 a month in support (that number was probably set before he married you, so you wouldn't enter the equation under ANY circumstances).

I'd suggest looking up the support calculator for your state, estimating the ex's salaries and doing the math. Either something is being missed here or the numbers are way wrong and you might try to adjust them.

As for how the ex's spend the money, that's going to be tough to prove. How do you show that the money you gave was spent on the car payment? Unless the kids are truly being neglected, you can't do much about that.

[Renee]

I am sorry I should proofread what I type.  It is my ex that works the minimum wage job.  That is why is cs is so low.  It has been that way since 2000.  Again, I am not money hungry.

We do have some proof of how she has spent the money.  If her parents ever come to their senses again and stop enabling her when she decides shes done disowning them, then we will have their testimony too.   We were in a position at one time when my husband went to Iraq and deposited all of the money into an account for her access.  She spent every dime and then some and was in fact in the hole when he came home  (we were not yet married at this time)
 and when the other guys came home and had a nice savings he had to figure out how to get out of the mess she created.  We had a paper trail because he had access to the account.  The money was spent on everything but the kids (bars, online purchases for herself, etc).  Shame on us I guess for not acting when we had the chance.  We even had the kids almost every day and night just so she could go out and party and we didn't care because they were with us.  We could have won custody then I am sure and she was scared but we backed out just so the kids woudn't have to go through it. (home studies and the whole bit)  Hind sight is 20/20 and in the long run it hurt the kids.  They could have been with us and taken care of. Live and learn.  So now we just keep waiting so that we can give them the life they deserve.  She is bound to mess up again.  It is in her nature.  I am sure you wouldn't even believe me if you knew everything she has done.  For now she just figures out how to get out of her messes but we will bide our time and give her the rope.  We have learned....trust me.
Please don't get me wrong and think that we want the money for ourselves.  We have lived without it and have the smarts to budget without it, but it is sickening to work so hard every day and have to hand it over just so she can sit at home or take care of her own needs and not the kids.  

[lucky]

I'm not sure what state you are in, but in Minnesota, it IS a custody issue.

As far as cs goes (till the laws change in 2007) the CP's income is not considered.  The NCP's spouse's income is not considered.

All that is considered is the NCP's income and the number of kids they'll pay for -- and you pay a percentage that varies depending upon how many kids and how much you make.

They DO make exceptions for "prior-born" children, but, it gets complicated then.

A law was passed that means MN will be going to income shares beginning sometime in 2007, but if I remember correctly, for those of us with previous orders, it won't change anything unless we can show a substantial change in circumstances.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[mistoffolees]

It's not an easy situation. If you can really prove that she misused the support money, there is probably recourse. However, I'm not sure if she'd be able to simply claim "yes, I used the money in that account to go to a bar, but I paid the same amount on support out of my own pocket". Socrateaser might be able to help you there.

Looks like you've got a tough decision - a long and expensive battle with (probably) little chance of success or living with it and doing what you can to remedy the situation.

Is there any chance at all that you could get her to a mediator or arbitrator to try to work out a better system?