Would You turn them in?

[norm9838]

My ex-girlfriend and her now current husband have done nothing but try to alienate my daughter from me for the last year. They are constantly telling me that I am trying to cause trouble for them when all I want to do is see my daughter and try to plan a portion of my own life. If plans get changed or things are to be different they go through my daughter. My ex use to talk to me and now is not allowed to via her husband. His exact words, "She now married and is my wife and we bought a new home together and she has a new truck I bought her for her birthday and we are happy and do not want you to cause us problems. All I wanted was an extra two days because I lost 5 in the beginning of my vistitation for summer because I was nice and let her mother have her for the 4th. I was suppose to get her on the 1st. Well anyway I have had it being the nice guy. This woman has had our daughter in 5 schools and she is just starting 6th grade. On top of that the school she will be going to is not the one she is suppose to be in. Her mother and stepdad moved out of her school district and now reside in another and her mother is going to lie and say she is living at an address within the limits. If she is caught my she will have to pay tuition and she knows that I know what she is doing. Well is she wants to lie thats one thing but I am tired of being part of the lie. The part that makes me sick is that she has taught my daughter that if you can not get what you want by telling the truth you lie. Which is one of the reasons we are not together. I kept hoping that her mother's habitual lying would not pass on to our child but I can see thats hopeless. Now she not only has a mother who lies but a stepdad who embellishes stories that anyone would question. So what would you do? Turn her in?

[Waylon]

[joni]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  your good intentions will never be returned.  don't deviate from the court order....you'll never get it back.  now you know.  we all find out the hard way on this board.

[4honor]

it is called the Y chromosome. If something can be taken in a negative light you, as a father will be seen that way.

I would turn them in, but only because you will be seen as having acquiensced to this if you do not ... and down the line when she is found out, you may be charged for the back tuition as well.

[c_alexander]

Your childs mother maybe teaching them that it is ok to lie, BUT that does not stop you from teaching your child that this kind of behavior is wrong in a way that doesn't outright tell your child the mother is bad, but allows the child to see the behavior is not right. With my daughter from an early age I taught her that we do not lie...ever, and that when we make a promise with each other that promise is always kept. It was a difficult concept for her at first but now that she is 10 I can see the benefits of these lessons. My daughter will tell me things she has done even bad things she knows she will get in trouble for because we are honest with each other. We can talk about things most fathers and daughter can't because of this bond we have built. Her mother has not been the most honest person and has done many things that weren't right or honest. Now my daughter is beginng to see this kind of behavior and knows that it is wrong, but at the same time I am not bad mouthing her mom. She is seeing this for herself. You may not always be able to control what is taught at your ex wifes house, and it is very frustrating at times, but you can control what you teach your child. Lead by example and your child will learn the truth on their own in time.

As for the school district thing I do know that in some areas you can chose which school your kid goes to. Be careful because it might end up where she gets caught and has to pay tuition and you get stuck with the bill. Never underestimate the poor judgement of the family law judges.

Good luck

[MYSONSDAD]

Make beleive daddy can go fly a kite. He should be staying out of this.

I would think a judge would frown on all this moving around. What ever happened to stability?

"Children learn what they live"

[norm9838]

How in the world can I be responsible for the tuition. In all the time that my daughter has been in school I have had no choice in choosing where she lives or where she attends school. My ex-girlfriend is the one that enrolls her. Maybe laws in other states are more strict when it comes to children and parents who are not together. When I was growing up if a mother or father would of left a 6 year old home alone an hour before school without any adult supervision. The parents would of been arrested for neglect. Years ago my ex did this with my daughter and when I tried to report this to child protection agency they told me that they could not do anything until something happened to my child. I went to an attorney last year in the fall because I wanted to try to get custody of my daughter. I told him the whole situation. That my ex has never stayed anywhere for over a year, that my daughter had been in a different school each year and that their had never been any stability in my daughters life other than me. My daughter finished last year with a D average. This is even after she was placed in LD. The sad part is our child is an intelligent child who has given up on most things in life. Now my ex is married to a man that she has only known since last fall. He has told me that he will not stand for my intrusion in their life. I do not want to intrude on him and his wife I just want to see my daughter when I am suppose to without all of the crap. He even went so far as to tell me that he has been in trouble with the law. He himself has a twelve year old son that he can not see and I wonder as to the reason why. We have in our papers that we have joint custody with her being the primary caregiver but yet I am not advised as to any decisions where my daughter is concerned. I am getting to the point of just giving up. I have lived in the same home for the last 15 years. I have been employed at the same job for 16. I could of provided my daughter with the stability that she needed. I feel like the whole situation is getting more hopeless by the minute. The attorney told me if I tried to get custody that I could very well lose and get even less time with my daughter. Maybe it is time to stepback from the situation. I know that my daughter has always wanted to spend time with me and that is her mother and sd get their way it will be less and less with all kinds of excusses. I figure her next line of attack if she does say all you are going to get is whats on the papers she will even try to keep me from that. Our papers state that I am to have every other weekend starting from Thursday after school until Sunday at 7. At which time she is to pick her up. Also every other Tuesday from after school until 7 at which time she is to pick her up. For the last two years I have picked her up and Dropped her off at home the morning after because her mother would not drive to get her. When we go back to the papers I know she will come up with some kind of an excuse to not let me have her because her and her husband will refuse to drive to get her. If we are going to go by the papers shouldn't it be down to the letter. If she will not do what is in the papers what is my next step of action. Also in our state it states that if two people are having a conversation on the phone that the conversation can be recorded. Every time I try to contact her mother and find out about my visitation he is screaming obscenties in the backgound. He has cut her off from all of her family members by doing the exact same things. I worry that he is an abusive person and maybe that is why he can not have his son. What would you do? I refuse to pay the tuition as I was not the person who enrolled her in a school she is not suppose to attend. This not a case of going to a different school located in the same town. She has moved into another county. That is why my daughter should be attending another school. My ex and her husband purchased a house on contract and did not care that they were placing her in a different school district. Anyway I am at the end of my rope. All I know is if she ever calls me again and says my world is falling apart and can you take our daughter for awhile until I find a place to live I will have her in court so fast her head will spin. When her world is falling apart she has no problem asking me to be the father of my child. I should of filed for custody two summers ago when she did that and then I would probably have my child. My problem is I try to be nice and make things run smooth and with her there is no being nice. Sometimes I wish you could still prove a person unfit. A person has to have a problem when they go from one man to his cousin and finally marry the cousins brother. Weird huh.

[4honor]

some states may find that as automatic liability for your daughter's bills.

We are not saying the situation is right or fair. That is how it is and while many here are working to change how things are, you still have to work within the confines of the system as it is now.

If your DD is not enrolled in the correct school come fall (or does she have year round school?) then immediately turn your ex-GF in to the school district. If you have something else pending before the court, then this should be brought up as well, but it is not a big enough hill to die on.

I suggest you use the notice of visitation letter with your ex -- send it 2 to 3 weeks in advance. Quote the court orders. Stick to the letter of the law. It leave zero flexibility, but BM will quickly change her tune when DD must miss 4 of 5 family events because BM demands you stick to the court order ONLY. (Dh's ex was a hard nose controlling wench until she had to stick to the court orders. She is much more flexible now, and the orders state "the parents will attempt to remain flexible for SS's HISTORICAL activities".)

If BM and her hubby do not follow the court order, you need to file an ORDER to SHOW CAUSE why BM should not be held in Contempt. Interfering in your court ordered time can be serious. But you have to show a pattern of you attempting to follow the orders and BM refusing visitation. Get your DD when you are supposed to get her. Then hold onto the child until BM comes to get her per court order.

Every time it is your time for visitation go get her. If BM will not give up the child file a police report (custodial interference) and go home peaceably. After the third or fourth time (30-45 days tops) file the contempt. Make sure you get proof you were there. If the police won't file a report then go to the nearest gas station 10 minutes before pick up time and buy $1.00 of gas on your debit card. Keep the receipt. Then when you leave the area, do the same.

DO not constantly renegotiate the orders... it makes them weaker and contempt is next to impossible to get.

[MYSONSDAD]

You should have so much more say in regard to your daughter, not the step dad.

I think the BM is showing instability by switching schools so often, NOT YOU.

TaLk to the attorney about getting a modification on MORE  visitation and things should stay between you and your ex, get something in there that keeps the SF OUT OF THE EQUATION.



1. Interference With Parental Rights Of Noncustodial Parent As Grounds For Modification Of Child Custody
This article discusses a different type of liability which may result from interference with the noncustodial parent's rights: loss of custody.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-borris.htm - size 51kb - 20 Oct 2003

2. Management Of Visitation Interference
Divorced parents who interfere with child visitation pose special difficulties not only for the families involved, but also for the courts. It is estimated that parents of more than six million children have interfered in their court-ordered visitation.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-turkat2.htm - size 33kb - 20 Oct 2003

3. Criminal Custodial Interference
Criminal Custodial Interference Criminal Custodial Interference This Adobe PDF document is a comprehensive list of State statutes covering criminal custodial inteference. Citing the relevant statute...
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/interference_statues.htm - size 2kb - 07 Nov 2003

4. Relocation As A Strategy To Interfere With The Child-Parent Relationship
The custodial parent who seeks to relocate poses a special problem for the noncustodial parent opposed to such a move. Physical distance between the visiting parent and his or her offspring can become a serious impediment to their relationship.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-turkat3.htm - size 14kb - 20 Oct 2003

[MYSONSDAD]

Send that letter with returned signed receipt showing she received it.

When you make the attempt to pick her up, bring someone you can trust that will testify on your behalf. If you have a camcorder, bring it. Get a gas receipt if she refuses, more you have, the better your chances.

If you feel your walking into a hostile situation, ask the LEA for a "civil standby" Let them know, YOU are trying to avoid any problems.

Cover your butt.

I am on your side. 2 1/2 years fighting visitation issues, IT SUCKS!

Sample letter:

Return Receipt Article (number)

To: (your ex's name)
From: (your name)
Date:(today's date)

Re: Notice of intent to exercise visitation.


As per our (divorce decree, custody & visitation orders) I am writing you to notify you that it is my intention to exercise court ordered visitation, as outlined in the court order, (page #, section #, paragraph #), on the following dates and times.

Pick up: (Date, time, place, and person picking child up)
Return: (date, time, place, and person returning child)
Contact information: (Number where she can contact YOU and child during your period of possession).

Should these dates and times present a problem for you, respond via U.S. Mail by (date) with alternate dates and/or times so that I may have sufficient time to adjust my schedule accordingly to the alternate dates and/or times. If I receive no response to the contrary, I will assume these dates and times to be acceptable to you.

I look forward to seeing (child's name).

Thank you, (Sincerely, etc. etc.)

(Your name, address and telephone number)

CC: Court Clerk, Court # (number), (County)
Return Receipt Article #: (number)

Reference: Case # (Divorce case number, found on the front page of the divorce decree or in the custody or visitation orders)


"Children learn what they live"