When a child knows best?

[Danae]

My husbands daughter wants to come live with us. We would welcome her. She has been consistant in wanting this for many months and her relationship with her mom is deteriorating rapidly. She is a different person with us, but with her mom....

Her mother is really not intouch with reality. She does not get that it is her controlling and manipulative behavior that makes her daughter want to leave. Believe me, there is NO telling her that. So, SD is 13 as of yesterday in the state of Washington. Her mother will fight her coming to her Dad's house with everything she has. Not only that, I believe her to be so unstable, I do not know what she will do. Anything from commiting suicide, to inflicting bodily harm on her daughter or someone else should they insist on furthering SD's wish to live in a household filled with love and respect.

Any advise on how to walk this razor fine line would be much appreciated!!! I and my family thank you all in advance!

Danae

[dearsirena]

who has a tough time with mom/dad, yet alone those involved in a custody/divorce battle I'd be rich beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!

At this age it does detiorate for many reasons but believe it or not, mostly because the child (teen) in question doesn't like being told what to do.  They compare their lives to peers who many times have the freedoms that this particular child doesn't, etc.

You are walking a fine line.  From someone who has been there I would first recommend you try working together with your ex and come to a somewhat unified front.  This 13 yr. old will play the two of you like a fiddle.  Don't give her that power!  If both parents are on the same page and support one another the outcome for the child will be the most optimum.  Easier said than done??  In most cases yes but decide what the ultimate goal here is, I assume the child, and go from there.

IF, and I give a big IF you are successful in changing custodial parent assignments, you and your SO, new wife, new family will be in for a world of pain and shock.  She won't just come there and be an angel because you feel you are a better parent.  Get together with your ex and try counselling for your daughter.  Let her know that you support her mother's decisions, as long as mom is abiding by what you BOTH agreed upon.  If not, regroup and come up with a new plan but be consistent......this is what will make a difference!

Trust me, they all are different with each parent.....part of the game they learn to play.  I heard it all from my DD who is now 23.  Mom may have her issues but I can guarantee your household does too.  None of us are perfect.  Join together, learn how to co-parent in the best way you can (again nothing will be perfect) and let you daughter know she doesn't make the calls that you and your ex have the power.

Best of luck.

Sirena

[Danae]

thanks for your response!
To introduce myself, I have been posting here for a very long time 98 or so I think off and on at least! I have been a big part of my SD life since she was 5 or so. This is nothing new, believe me, I have had my trial by fire over the last 7 1/2 years.

Co-parenting is way beyond what SD's mother is capable of. The problem stems from several things as you say. 1) Bio-mom is a VERY manipulative individual. I could go on and on, but let's just take that one at face value, so I don't bore you to tears. She regularly uses her daughter to get what she wants and often uses her with her right in the room. 2) She is an emotionaly abusive person who is more likely to take out everything happening in her life on whomever happens to be present. Usually just SD as her lastest boyfriend has just left her. These two main issues have broken down most of the trust that my SD has ever had in her mom. If SD so much as rolls her eyes whislt saying nothing, she is likely to have her mother go through her room, take what ever she thinks she can give away, and just leaves with her stuff. That's just the most superfulous thing I could come up with that I know has happened.  

Ultimately, Bio-mom has no respect for herself and less for anyone else, most notably her child. SD is treated like a thing, one that should be under mommys complete and total control. The tighter Bio-mom tries to control her, the more she slips away. This is the essential crux of the situation. We have had SD try to manipulate us in the past. We nailed her on it in such a way as to let her know that she is not only better than that, she is worthy of treating HERSELF better than that. So that stopped. We have gotten confirmation of what is happening to SD under that roof from a couple of other sources. Literally at this moment, I am CERTAIN that we are going to get the call within 3 months, you know the one, the "COME GET YOUR KID!" call. What we want to avoid if possible the emotional and mental pain that both of those two are going to cause each other, and the scars that will stay with them the rest of their lives. I agree, we may well be powerless to prevent it. It is a helpless feeling.

I have known and had to deal with this person (bio-mommy) and her family now for 7 years. To say they are broken messed up people is only Politically correct. It is such an understatment I can't even begin to correct it! SD has been consistant for the last 8 months or so in her stated desire to come live with her Dad. It isn't a fly by night thing. She knows that it is going to be hard! We have not abridged what it will take to make it happpen. She knows that she will have to make the choice beteween parents. One way or another. We know what she wants, telling her mother about it (Based on past experience) will create a nearly inotolerable living situation for her with her Mom. Someone is going to get hurt. Actually most all of us are gonna get bloodied by this one. It is literally a matter of staunching the bleeding if you follow me. How to do this with as few wounds as possible- while dealing with a custodial parent that is completely out of touch with reality and the reality of what she is doing to her child. Not to mention the very real possiblity that she may react with physical violence.

This is a tough one! Thanks for your input and for any more you care to give!!!
thanks
Danae

[dearsirena]

How did you and your DD's mom parent together?  Were there issues with parenting decisions, punishments, etc. the same as they are now?  Who was strict, who was passive?  Has any of that changed?

I too have been around for many years with stories from both a CP side and an NCP side dealing with PAS, children's divorce issues, etc.   I have a husband that went through a court battle with an angry ex who pushed a child to say they were physically abused.  He followed it though the courts and won hands down!!!!!!! ($15K later)  A typical PAS parents choice of revenge.   I've seen just about every tactic and when I hear that mom isn't treating a child properly I immediately respond with "learn to co-parent".   A child will never LOVE the way the other is parenting.  Unless you see clear-cut abuse such as bruising, malnutrition, etc. give it up.

Blink an eye and imagine your DD with you, in your  home........trust me, won't be the utopia you all dream about.  She may want the less "strict" father, she may want to manipulate you both more, but again could be that mom is really crazy.  She'll begin to play the same games with you as she did with mom and badabing, badaboom.......................you'll want her back with mom since she orignally caused the issues???!!!!  Not necessarily, if parents were more able to unite and join then these manipulative kids wouldn't be so inclined to pursue their interests!

Bottom line, convince the judge!!  Spend 5 years of your 20 years of earnings following this for no guaranteed result.  Is she hurting your DD or does your DD want a more cushy life?  A life that may create more havoc for you and your new spouse/SO???

Hoping you all find a balance.

Sirena

[wendl]

In most counties in WA State the commissioner will hear the voice of the child at 12. In one hearing I attended in Pierce county, the commissoner ordered that the daughter be in chambers the next day so he could speak with her.

In Snohomish County I have seen the same thing.

What county is your case in??? I may have a good attorney for you.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Danae]

NO, it's nothing like that. In fact I would be totally for paying Child Support for a year if it would make the transition easier for my Step-Daughter, my daughter really, I have accepted responsiblity for her welfare  a long time ago. Otherwise, I would never have fought for her right to BOTH her parents! I wrote the parenting plan that is still in effect! This isn't so much an issue of different parenting skills, it is more a matter of life skills.  She spends 45 days in the summer with us, full time. She is nothing but agreeable while she is here. If we have issues, we talk about them and deal with them in as adult like a manner as possible. She has gotten her first Period, she is biologicaly a woman now. That does not mean she has more than a 13 year-olds mind! She must be treated as though she DOES have a more adult mind however, and rightly so. She has damn little choice to this point as to how her life has gone, she has been at the whim of others, mostly and most abusively by her mother! I don't blame her for wanting to get away from it! Most every other human that has had to deal with Bio-Mommy, has bugged out after a few months, a couple of years at the most extreme.
Co-parenting is out of the question, not so much because I am not for it. Completely the opposite! Bio-Mommy will have NONE of it. She has completely rejected every single bit of input that hubby has given! It is her way or the Highway. She does not listen to SD's Father, she listens to no one. Most notably her daughter, who is crying out for just a little respect!
Literally, this really is a no win situation. I don't see a win for hubby and I, I don't see a win for my SD.  I don't see a win for Bio-Mommy. This bothers me because I want to see SD win. I just don't have a freaking clue how to make that happen under the circumstances!

[Danae]

Our case would be in King County. We are considering hiring Raj Bains. We have spoken to him and he is our kinda guy. Go get the job done and shut up! Works for us!

I don't know how much weight the Judges give the childs testomony. She is pretty firm about wanting to come here, she is just living in fear of her mother, and is desperately afraid of what she will do if she voices her desire to live with her dad to her mom. Her mom has freaked over that very issue in just the last 6 months, so SD has reason to worry! The last time it came up, SD was REALLY freaked out by Bio-Mom. Really freaked out. She wants Daddy to advocate for her. I don't blame her, Bio-Mommy is intimidating as hell for anyone not strong enough to confront her on her crap and be ready to dole out some physical violence. In my case, I took out a Restraining Order when she threatened me, I have trained in Martial Arts, so I am confident I could defend myself. My SD has no such assurances to depend on!

Ultimately, we want what is what is best for SD. We think that is with us. SD thinks that is with us. Only one who disagrees is the person most responsible for SD sad self esteem and pain. These two need a break from one another if they are to have an even decent relationship in the future. I don't want either of them to go through the alienation that is GOING to come should this course continue as it is. SD will come to openly rebel, her mommy will try to crush it, SD will resist it, and then who the hell knows what will happen next! I would avoid that fo the both of them if I could. If for no other sake than my SD's respect and love for her mother.

Thanks Wendl!!!! For any advise you can give, I respect your opinion!!!
Danae

[wendl]

I have heard good things about that attorney. My sis in laws case was in King County, she really liked her atty. I will ask her who she used and let you know.

A lot of times in older kids in WA they will listen to them, because as they get older what do tend to do is run away, and if the child has GOOD reasons of way they want to switch homes then the commissioners will take this into consideration. Now if they just want to switch houses cuz one is to strict, no can do. But if her reasons are valid then he will listen more.

[Danae]

Thanks Wendl!

Our home is actually the stricter of the two! We have rules and boundaries. There are consequences when they are crossed. We just don't scream and belittle people to get it done! We talk and use reasonable tones and pester the heck out of the kids till it gets done. That or they get to make the choice and pay the cost what ever it is... The difference comes in the amount of personal respect we give each other here

Thanks again!
Danae