She stole the kids, and I'm depressed

[buckhntr]

I posted a bit on this a few weeks ago here is the story.
We have had marital troubles for the past 10 years or more. She ran off to another state 1200 miles away with the youngest 2 of 5 kids. Left one minor with me.   2 are adults.  Have financial dificulty with good income (read crushing DEBT) so no money available to pay a retainer of several thousand dollars to get an attorney.  I have been asking her to return and work out an equitable visitation schedule but she is adamant about staying away.  I did visit the 2 kids in May while on a business trip that was within 150 miles of where they were staying.   Filed for divorce Pro Se yesterday with an ExParte plea to establish jurisdiction and for return of children.  Judge called me in to talk and had questions as to why I waited so long and what is the emergency saying that although he technically has jurisdiction that since they have been down there for nearly 4 months he could dump the case on them since the most current info on health and welfare exists in another state.  of course since I am not a lawyer my documents werent exactly correct.  Clearly i am out of my league and have likely waited too long.  Maybe I should just go down and bring the kids back there is no custody or support orders.  
Where do I turn?

[buckhntr]

Should mention I am in ND

[Davy]

... and the mother has put the children up 'for sale'.  

Your 'home state' judge has already signaled to you his 'mommy bias'.
Just for example, the stated time frame is 6 months not 4 and there are other more substantial criteria that governs jurisdiction ..also his comment about dumping the jurisdiction especially given that no opposing jurisdiction currently exists ... generally speaking the jurisdiction of the left behind parent retains jurisdiction as long as that parent remains in the jurisdiction.

Just this morning, s TV news program reported there are currently an estimated 800k missing and EXPLOITED children...past studies reveal most of those children result from parental abductions rather than stranger abductions.  Do not overlook the word EXPLOITED now or in the future ...that is what studies have revealed.  The judge has a responsibility to protect the children but they don't.  They prefer to rule on a benign social policy rather than the letter of the law. Children usually pay the heaviest cost in the short and long term.

I suggest you reread the responses from your previous post, calm yourself to clear your head, and replan your stratagy.

BTDallofthisshit.

[buckhntr]

I need some guidance (not legal advice) on how to construct my documents and what to file when,    Feeling like I cannot do this and should just roll over and lube up.

I need to submit an affidavit of circumstances and a motion for hearing to determine temporary custodyand other matters, draft my proposed temporary orders. then summon witnesses. The procedure and document outline is a bit confusing considering the pile of crap I filed monday.  I clearly need a lawyer or at least someone who can look at my papers to see if they should be OK.

Seriously thinking of driving down and picking the kids up maybe I can have some time with them this summer, STBX (soon to be ex)would probably try and cool the cops have CPS waiting at the house when I get home etc.  She really is insane.  She has alienated the oldest 3 kids with  her fanatical religous attitude, I'm sure she will do the same to these 2 also and in 3-5 years I will have them back.

[Davy]

This may help.  Many local newspapers list divorce cases.  Whateveer.  
Since these cases are public one can simply go to the clerk of court and ask for ANY case file by name ... then photocopy and bingo you have the format normally filed by an attorney.  Also a case file should be  date ordered (keep it that way) so take notes.  Another source for document formats would be friends and/or famly members.  Perhaps the court clerk will provide divorce cases without a name.

Of course a "Motion for Temporary Custody",  "Temporary Custody Order"   "Affidavitt", "Response", "Notice of Hearing" etc are commonly filed documents.

If Law schools operate in area there may be a Young Lawyers association to assist with formats,  plus.  Search for pro se advocates in your area.      

In the day, I hung (and shared) with numerous pro se advocates ... and there were many.  Most of us ONLY filed pro se when we knew we could handle it and could do a better job than any attorney.  None of us had any $$$ for an a$$hole ... I ended up paying 9 (or was it 10) and the ONLY reason I became a CP was because I had one attorney that was not part of the good ole boy system.  AND because SHE screwed up the kids so bad.

Once you get started ... you can roll.  At this point in time, you need to file.serve a temporary custody motion.  Any future actions (ie subpeona) will be dictated by opposers response.

Locate and carry U.S. Supreme court rulings that says pro se filers DO NOT need to function like attorneys in their fillings.  Example : hand write a motion if need be and be sure not to verbalize a motion in a hearing ...anticipate opposing attorney at all times.

[buckhntr]

I tried to get her to talk a bit this weekend sent her an offer for a settlement but she does not reply because it isnt what she wants. She texted me to leave the kids out of it. And I told her I do not talk to them about her just say hello and ask what they are up to make small talk and let them know I love and miss them.  She was very hesitant to let me talk to them yesterday and would have put them on speaker but I had to call her brothers home line because she had her phone off (today too)  when I asked about that she said she doesnt have to keep it on.  

I am getting documentation together on all the local school IEPs and asking school personell if they would be sympathetic witness (she has blocked some things that were very good for the kids such as ADD meds and one older son was placed in a home on a court order that helped him a great deal).  Asked the Clerk for some files for examples of document prep, she said she would have to get back to me on that.  

This woman won't communicate at all.  I asked her today why she should deprive the 2 kids she had of thier father for the next 4-8 years and her response was well you have 3 of them, like they are candy to divide up or something.  I told her it wasn't fair to them and she hung up on me.

Davy would you have any specific Supreme court rulings in mind I could look up? Any other help from anyone would be helpful.

I am going to request a hearing this week and hever her served asap.

[buckhntr]

I tried to get her to talk a bit this weekend sent her an offer for a settlement but she does not reply because it isnt what she wants. She texted me to leave the kids out of it. And I told her I do not talk to them about her just say hello and ask what they are up to make small talk and let them know I love and miss them.  She was very hesitant to let me talk to them yesterday and would have put them on speaker but I had to call her brothers home line because she had her phone off (today too)  when I asked about that she said she doesnt have to keep it on.  

I am getting documentation together on all the local school IEPs and asking school personell if they would be sympathetic witness (she has blocked some things that were very good for the kids such as ADD meds and one older son was placed in a home on a court order that helped him a great deal).  Asked the Clerk for some files for examples of document prep, she said she would have to get back to me on that.  

This woman won't communicate at all.  I asked her today why she should deprive the 2 kids she had of thier father for the next 4-8 years and her response was well you have 3 of them, like they are candy to divide up or something.  I told her it wasn't fair to them and she hung up on me.

Davy would you have any specific Supreme court rulings in mind I could look up? Any other help from anyone would be helpful.

I am going to request a hearing this week and hever her served asap.

[Davy]

Buck...

I carried around a large box of TX, IL, and US Supreme Ct rulings for years and finally tossed them.

A google search revealed the following :  317 US 269) the United States Supreme Court upheld the individual's right to to represent him or herself without being admitted to a bar (pro se). ...

In TX some pro se litigants cited specific rulings in written motions to appear official and as a prelude  or warning of appeal. They often carried into court a copy of rulings.  I never did. My court would have ignored it anyway.

It was important to have a copy of 'The TX rules of civil proceedures" and a copy 'The local rules of the court' (you might ask if the provide or
 if they produce such a document).'  

Does the mother have the means to return the children ?

Is she likely to comply with court orders ?

Do you expect her to file in the foreign (out of state ) court ?

It is most unfortunate that she would not permit the children to speak with their father ... in the long run that should work in your favor. Add it to your notes !!  

[buckhntr]

She actually did allow me to speak to them but was hesitant and I needed to remind her she does not have a right to not permit the children to speak with me, and they have a right to speak privatly to me.  Early on in this she would only let them speak if she was in the room with the speaker on.  I put a stop to that.  

Looking like she might move towards a settlement. I am tired of fighting with this woman it has been like this for 15 years or more, been very quiet at home since she left.  

If I get the kids most of the summer, half the holidays and some of the school breaks, she will do her part to drive them away as she did the other 3.  I will craft a parenting plan to present her with language to allow 14yos the right to choose to participate in religious activities or not, choice of which parent to live with.  Also an absolute right for the children to contact me at any time for any reason. If she signs it then they are protected a bit from her mormon fanaticism.

[buckhntr]

I filed for divorce Pro Se a couple weeks back,  EX found out I asked my children to know that if I came down there would they come back with me,  I thought it was a reasonable question, give them a choice, but my EX is very controlling and has now refused to allow me to speak with them for nearly 2 weeks.  She doesnt answer her phone, open her text messages (they bounce back expired) or answer email.  So I am cut off from my children because I left her church (Mormon).  Speaking with a lawyer on Wednesday.