Help/information sought

[stepmom2b]

My fiance already has primary placement of 2 children (11,10).  New orders from October 2008 gives mom EOW; Thursday overnight on the off week and they split the summers.

Since these orders were placed mom has refused to take one of the children - not even for the holidays.  She will come and pick up the one child but not even talk to the other one.  There were issues between youngest child and her live in boyfriend (police were called a few times, social services were involved).  The last time two times she did take him - he called and asked to be picked up one time and the next time she kicked him out of the house (told him to leave at 9:30pm he wasn't welcome anymore.  Wouldn't let him use the phone and he started walking home - we live about 7 miles from her - police picked him up and we went and got him).

So our question is this - and we understand you can't make anyone take their child if they don't want to - how long would you wait to take her back to court to get full legal custody?  Can you get full legal on one child?

She seems fine with things the way they are now but we need to look into his future.  He is adamant about not having to go back there and she is refusing to discuss and/or get any counseling to correct their issues.  We don't like to split the children up but so far things are going okay for the oldest child.  How would you handle this?  Anyone have any ideas?  Thanks!

[gemini3]

I would go back and ask for supervised visitation.  The police report should help you in this.  Even though the oldest seems to be fine with the arrangement doesn't mean that it isn't doing emotional damage.

[stepmom2b]

I agree - the emotional damage is great!  The older child is playing both sides to his best advantage (which we understand) because he wants everything to be calm..... The youngest definitely has abandonment issues because his mother doesn't love him.  She carries insurance on them but won't let us have any information - we've tried to get her to comply but it isn't happening.  Court tells her to give it up and she agrees but never does it.  It amazes me how some women can lie and get away with it.  I wouldn't be able to look myself in a mirror if I lied like that!

Anyway, how long would you wait to take her back?  Is six months the normal time to get a change of circumstance case? We don't want her to start taking him again because nothing has changed and he doesn't need that grief anymore. If she finds out we are going to take her back to court that is exactly what she will do.  It has nothing to do with him but she doesn't like anyone to know she's a bad mother.  She's more concerned with appearances than truth.

Thanks!

[ocean]

You should go back NOW with that police report that she kicked out her 10 year old and let him walk home.  No time wait, this is a safety issue for both children. What happens if next time it is the 11 year old???

[stepmom2b]

The only problem with that is she told the police that "I told him to go to bed and he got dressed and left the house".  Which is complete drivel - he is terrified of the dark and would never leave the house at night, especially alone....  She's an excellent liar and the police believed her.  I had to send my mom to get him because we were both out of town at the time and my mom didn't know what to do so she just took him and brought him home.  Unfortunately, the police still believe the parent even if the child says something different.

He does not want to go over by his mom's anymore and we don't make him (she doesn't ask for him either tho).  My fiance has already told her that any visits would have to supervised due to the turmoil between them.  But it has been about 3 months now since she's seen him.  Even when she comes to pick up the other child she doesn't get out of the car to talk with him.  It's very sad!

The older child will do anything his mother tells him so he will be okay unless he starts talking back, etc... which I doubt.  He will play it safe as he's already seen what she's capable of and doesn't want trouble with her.  His damage will be emotional.  What a mess.

Thanks for your input and help.  I guess we'll have to wait the 6 months and go for abandonment then.

[gemini3]

I would go ask for supervised visitation now.  Your goal shouldn't be to get the kids away from her, it should be to help the kids foster as healthy a relationship as possible with their mom. 

[ocean]

I agree...6 months for what? to put in writing that she is not getting the kid? She already is not getting one. It is not healthy for one child to go and not the other. There is soon going to be anger between the kids...."mom, love me...look what mom got me...".

[stepmom2b]

Thanks for the input.  I will talk with fiance and have him start the matter.  She has shown no interest in any visitation with the one child - supervised or not.  How do we protect the other one who she does want to see?  Include both in supervised visitations? - even though there has been no issue with the older child?

We've talked with the older child (especially at x-mas time) about talking to his brother re: mom, things going on at her house, etc.  He understood that it would make his brother feel bad and has been pretty good about it (that we know of anyway)....  He told us that he felt bad about what happened to his brother but he had also been afraid for his brother because he would get hurt by mom's house.

Why do women do this to their children - it is beyond me. I've raised 2 kids and could never justify treating any human being that way much less your own kids.  Such a shame!

[boilergal]

In addition to filing for supervised visitation now for the younger one, both children should be in counseling.  The younger child needs a third party to discuss the matters with and work through the issues and the older child needs the same so that they don't feel guilty about the younger child.

I would also ask for stipulation for counseling for the mother with the younger child and the father, and maybe the older one as well.

Both kids need counseling to learn that it isn't their fault and to learn coping skills.

Has the bio ever threatened not to take the older child?

[stepmom2b]

No, she's never threatened not to take the older child.

We were in joint family counseling but she attended one meeting and cancelled the rest that were scheduled.  We had both kids in counseling and stopped because the counselor said they were fine but are trying to find another counselor, especially for the younger one.  The counselor tried helping her with parenting skills but she wouldn't listen - and this isn't the first time we've tried to get help so the kids didn't have to suffer.

Thanks!