Needing advice - transferring court case to diff. county in IN and medical issue

[ScornedMomma]

Been a lurker here for years but never posted...

In the sake of not having to retype all of this......I had posted this on another forum and am just going to copy and paste here...this is in regards to my husband, his ex and their son who is 10. We live in IN, they moved to FL. And we no longer live in the county (in IN) where the divorce was granted.
2 years ago she moved 1,000 miles away just to keep dh away from his son who is now 10, almost 11. I've never seen such a controlling, mean-spirted vindictive person in my entire life! He's seen his son once for 2 hours in the entire 2 years! She won't allow him to call and if so he calls collect (OK he called ONCE in 2 years). She claims she doens't have a cell and can't afford phone calls. She travels back here every few mos. and then lies and says she doesn't. She doesn't even tell dh so that he could see his son during that time. 5,000 has already been spent in attorney fees by my dh. She had him in counseling when she lived back here and dh only saw him on Wed. nites and every other wkend. on Sat. only for about 4 hours b/c she conned the counselor into thinking it was my dh that was the problem with the son's emotional state and well being. Funny now that she's lived away for 2 years and dh has seen him for 2 hours in that time frame and can maybe get them to answer the phone maybe once a month if that to talk for maybe 1-2 min. It's funny how dh is not even in his life anymore (except for the money she sucks out of our home every week in CS) but we get a package in the mail today with bills that dh supposedly owes on......and get this........there's copies of 4,000 in dental bills (braces) and tons and tons of receipts for scripts and dr. visits. I haven't even added them up yet. These go back to the beginning of LAST YEAR and now she wants her cut. She told him in Dec. that she had braces put on him but never told dh BEFORE she did it to ask if we had insurance on him or anything. That's bull!! She also claimed that he has ZERO mental issues or behavioral issues at all since he's moved. Funny though son slipped up and told dh that he had to switch schools b/c he was being bullied. Also, in this PILE and I mean pile of scripts receipts there's scrips for 7 drugs, FIVE of which are psych meds!!! She's had him on at least 5 psych meds since Jan. 2008!!!! Yep, dh was the problem all along, huh???

So, this is how my lovely day got interrupted.......with the mail lady bringing this pile of crap for me to sign as proof the b**** mailed it to us. And of course after whatever she is supposed to pay yearly out of pocket my dh has split 50/50 with her!

I'm thinking it's attorney time again..........!!!! Dh doesn't even want to force his son to come see him for extended visits if he doesn't want to but this b**** won't even allow phone calls or visits with son when they are in our area!!! That's all he's asking for and she makes that tough! Then just drops a pile of several thousand dollars in bills on us and just expects us to cough that crap up. What in the hell gives her the right to NOT say a word to dh about taking him to a psych and putting him on all these meds and the crap with the ortho and the braces and then just dumping that crap on us???
My questions are:
1. Should we modify the court order to say that she MUST say before she goes out and racks up major med bills that she has to TELL us BEFOREHAND?
2. Can we transfer the court case to the county in IN we currently live in since neither party resides in the original county
3. Will hubby even have to pay the bills since she never said anything to him first?
4. Will we have to pay for the braces at all since the decree doesn't say squat about orthodontics???

Thanks for any help I can get.....

[MomofTwo]

Regarding:

Should we modify the court order to say that she MUST say before she goes out and racks up major med bills that she has to TELL us BEFOREHAND?  You can file a modification stating if it is not urgent Dad has to be notified prior to any care or not be held accountable for his portion. This will not however  get him off the hook for past medical expenses.
2. Can we transfer the court case to the county in IN we currently live in since neither party resides in the original county.  No,  if neither party resides in the original area, jurisdiction follows the child, not Dad.
3. Will hubby even have to pay the bills since she never said anything to him first? Wholly depends on his orders, if it says Dad has to pay 1/2 and doesn't specify timeframes and that care needed to be discussed with Dad prior to commencing the care, then yes, very possible.
4. Will we have to pay for the braces at all since the decree doesn't say squat about orthodontics???   Again, depends on what the orders say. Typically orders includes 1/2 uncovered medical/dental or whatever the split was based on parental income. 

Regarding other things you have written:

If Dad has orders that specify visitation, he is entitled to visistation and contempt can be filed but only if Dad has made attempts at exercising his visitation.  Make up visitation can be requested, but if Dad has not tried pursuing visitation, then there would be no make up visitation. You don't get make up if you didn't try to actually enforce visitation.  If Dad doesn't want to enforce visitation, that is his choice. Visitation is a right, not an obligation. Dad can always request a modification that if child is visiting the area Dad at least can have a day or dinner with the child.

Regarding phone communication - is it in the orders that Dad has a specific phone time? If not, Mom doesn't have to allow it. She should, but if it's not specified in an order, she cannot be held in contempt for an order that does not exist.   If it isn't specified already, he can file for a modification specifying days/times that Dad can speak to his children.  Really,  and this is only my opinion, but I don't think children should ever have to be the ones calling their parents. What does it tell a child when a parent never calls them and it's put on the child to be responsible for something an adult isn't even doing. I know, it's REALLY the repsonsibility of the parent the child is with, but I think it sends a child a wrong message when it is left up to them to have to do the calling to a parent.

I know it's very frustrating, but take a deep breath, relax, and go from there.  Dad has to figure out what he wants and go from there.

[Davy]

Mom moved a 1000 miles away to keep father from a relationship with his son.
Jurisdiction DOES NOT follow mom abscounding with a child. How bizzarr !!
 
Jurisdiction CLEARLY, by both uniformed state statues and Federal statues, remains in Indiana as long as the left behind parent remains a resident in Indiana. 

The father can request a venue change and probably get it..

Medical/dental provider will demand payment from parent that requested and approved the services not a disenfranchised parent 1000 miles away that did not know services had been requested by another adult.

About making up and the enforcement of visitation.  These matters are at the discretion and  whim of a court purposefully considering an array of factors.  There are no hard and fast rules anywhere. That is certain even if it is spelled out in a court order.  Especially when a child has been moved 1000 miles from the other parent.   

[ScornedMomma]

We are not trying to enforce the visitation we have which is all of Xmas Break, all of Spring Break and half of summer vacation. We ARE however trying to enforce the part that says hubby can visit with him when they come back to this area.

I can't imagine that she's allowed to NOT answer the phone for weeks on end? As in 4-6 weeks of leaving messages and she's not required to answer or call back. I don't think so. Indiana State Guidelines say resonable phone contact and reasonable is NOT having to call the police for a well child check after they don't answer for 6 straight weeks of leaving messages.

The decree says that dental is covered by not orthodontics and she did not contact us first about this. She racked up a 4,000.00 bill for braces and never asked if we even had insurance. That's so wrong! Plus it's a COSMETIC issue, not something that is 100% necessary!

Why would the jurisdiction follow the Mom in another state when the divorce was granted in IN and hubby lives in In? Why would jurisdiction follow her? I moved away from my ex - still within the same state however - and jurisdiction sure didn't follow with me!

At any rate we are seeking new legal counsel and and going over our options. I will say that hubby is NOT willingly gonna pay for the braces at this point!!!

[shaden3]

Jurisdiction doesn't "follow" folks who move away, necessarily. When seeking to modify an existing order in a different "home" state, it may be necessary to domesticate the order as a foreign judgment. This will provide the new state jurisdiction it needs to take on the case for modification. Jurisdiction can be a complicated scenario, so checking with the courts and/or an atty to clarify is very helpful.

[MomofTwo]

I apologize, I did not see Dad resided in the original state, in that case, it does not follow the child, but Shaden is right, best to confer with local counsel which you are doing.

Additionally, Davy is correct regarding medical / dental bills and the fact the provider won't care about a family court agreement, but this forum is related to family law issues and my response was only from the eyes of the court, not the eyes of the provider.   I stand by it matters in the agreement what was ordered and the wording of that order will determine Dad's financial responsibility for reimbursement of these medical/dental services.

[Davy]

There is ONLY one HOME state that has exclusive continuing jurisdiction  as long as the left behind parent stays in the home state.  This is the very essence of the UCCJA and PKPA jurispurdence.  There is absolutely no statue identifying a "different" home state but quite a bit against modifying an existing foreign order.  So seek counsel from those with UCCJA/PKPA training or experience and definitely not local counsel without interstate knowledge.

I'm beginning to understand some posters may be associated with organizations that are not a bit friendly to fathers and their children or otherwise manipulating issues to claim correctness..

I think it best not to make a confrontational statement that another poster is right.  Two wrongs don't make it right.

I once attempted,  as a custodial parent, to get the non-custodial to pay a portion of dental care.  Of course the provider wanted immediate payment ... they have children and a business to run, employees to pay, etc.  Does it make sense to get "the costly eyes of the court" attempt to collect from someone 1000 miles away.  Most companys would be out of business in a heart beat if they depended on the "eyes of the court"....the same they do to children.

[shaden3]

We are not trying to enforce the visitation we have which is all of Xmas Break, all of Spring Break and half of summer vacation. We ARE however trying to enforce the part that says hubby can visit with him when they come back to this area.

I may be missing something here, but it seems to me that there was an agreement before mom moved away? The visitation agreement is similar to those when parents are living in different states. MomofTwo makes important and well-spoken points regarding modifications and jurisdiction.

After six months, and it is not an instance of parental abduction, the jurisdiction likely does switch to child's new home state. However child support issues do not follow the same rules of jurisdiction.

Luckily, there are many honorable and balanced organizations out there that provide parents living apart with great services and peace of mind. Am not familiar with the organization that Davy refers to, but let's keep fingers crossed they aren't posting here.

[Davy]

Again ... general statements are being made that are not only mis-leading but also disceitful then followed-up with back-slapping each other.  Reminds me of a slumber party with a bunch of giggly young girls playing "gotcha". 

This poster has described how the mother relocated 1000 miles to keep this young boy from his father and further there is no phone contact.   How in the world can you try to persuade anybody that this behavior should not only be substantiated but also this mother can go into that foreign court and modify an existing order so the father is further disenfranchised or, in effect, terminated as a parent.  You couldn't do that with a horse or sheep or an automobile.  The laws are substantially agains this behavior and is NOT ACCEPTABLE no matter how your pretty words try to make it ACCEPTABLE.

Here's an example of a loaded statement representing stinkin thinkin :
"After six months, and it is not an instance of parental abduction, the jurisdiction likely does switch to child's new home state. However child support issues do not follow the same rules of jurisdiction."  What on earth do you consider consider an "instance of parental abduction" same with "six months" and "switch to new home state". Geesh !!  All bogus  !


SO I'll repeat .... I'm beginning to understand some posters may be associated with organizations that are not a bit friendly to fathers and their children or otherwise manipulating issues to claim correctness..

I think it best not to make a confrontational statement that another poster is right.  Two wrongs don't make it right.



AND I have not even started on EXPLOITATION OF CHILDREN by the court system and mothers.

[ScornedMomma]

I thought my post was pretty easy to follow and self-explanatory. Apparently not.............

Basically as I said before my husband's ex wife moved from IN to FL to "take a new job". She claims she could not find work here in IN but my husband knows that she was plotting this even during their marriage. She wanted to take the son as far away as possible. She still wants to suck child support and any other dime she can out of us but does NOT want to allow the son contact with my husband via phone or in person.

IN state guidelines state that we are to have "reasonable phone contact". A previous poster stated than unless it's directly written into the decree that it was a non-issue that my husband has gone for 6 weeks without them answering the phone, they won't return calls, etc. That is reasonable? I think not!!!

We are not pushing to have Christmas, Spring Break and half the summer which is dictated by the divorce decree - my husband merely wants to speak to him weekly via phone and visit with him when the ex returns to IN to visit her parents. No, my husband has not driven or flown down there and if you people are so eager to know why it's b/c his ex TOOK the son down there......why should we have to pay to visit? Not to mention she has brainwashed him. The son tells my husband he hates him, he left them for another woman (me - which by the way is not true....we met SIX MONTHS after their separation) and forced his mother to have to go back to work full time (boo freaking hoo!). He also has told my husband he hopes he dies, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not sure why people on here are posting that the jurisdiction follows the son. I don't think so. I know for a fact that is not true! I merely asked if we could switch from one county in IN to another county in IN (the one in which we now reside). I asked nothing about jurisdiction following them, etc. etc.

We DO plan on finding legal counsel b/c as of right now we are not paying her a dime towards the braces. It does not list orthodontics in the divorce decree, it was a cosmetic issue not something that was needed and the lazy b*** didn't even call to tell us first!!!!!!