PAS? Anyone Else?

[Momfortwo]

The difference is that the mom enrolled the kids in the activities, then pulled them out because the dad wanted to go to the games.  In fact, pulled them out in the middle of a game because the dad was there. 

The father did not choose to deprive his kids.  He did not pull them out of the game.  The mother did.  No person should be held hostage by another through their own children.  That is what the mother is doing in this situation.  She is telling the father to do as she says or she will deprive the kids of something.

But the father chose to do something that he KNEW would result in the kids not being able to go to the game.  Both parents are depriving the kids by their behavior.

Rather than get into a power struggle with his ex, if it is that important to the kids that they be able to go and participate in their game, he should go to court and see if he can get it court ordered that she has to take them to the game on her week-end.  Because right now, she doesn't have to.   

Because right now, both of their behavior is depriving the kids of participating in their games at least half the time. 

Like it or not, the father is behaving poorly as well.  Not as bad as the mom.  But that doesn't change the fact that he is to blame, too. 

[mdegol]

Come on...this one is obvious...Mom is wrong. And Dad DOES need to stand up to her. Actually, he would be doing his children a great disservice not to. Because if he doesn't kids are going to have to make choices their whole life...picking mom or dad. They should not get the message that it is OK. Or the message that Dad doesn't care, because it will turn into that over time. Or the message that it is too difficult to deal with mom and dad understands.... Weddings..graduations...funerals... I mean if she can't handle a SOCCER game with him at one end of the field, she needs a serious wake up call (as well as stronger meds). And if she pulls them off the field, there should be consequences. BUT....dad has a real nightmare on his hands. I don't know what he can really do except show up, or try to take them on his weekends. She has to hear that this is wrong from someone...maybe he can involve coaches? Actually, nix that, others do NOT want to get involved in these situations. To me, it is almost a reason for a custody change. She is completely putting her own needs in front of her children's. One could make it sound small, but it shows a real pathology. Those poor kids must have been humilated by this! And it is NOT dad's fault for showing up. If she does this to them over this, she would do it over other things, in other situations as well.

And to be capable of making a scheme and pulling her kids out a game?? She is no shrinking violet that can't handle seeing her ex. She doesn't have any shame! I was really outraged by this story. You are their dad ALL the time, not just on weekends. You are doing the right thing!!!

[mdegol]

And, this is not about sports involvement, or requirements for parents to take kids to sports. This is about humiliating your children in front of a staring crowd, just to deliberately try to exclude their father from something any normal father would want to attend.

[mdegol]

Actually, here is what you do, start showing up to practices too. And pay for it. Take her up on her offer. You HAVE the offer in the email. Then give her the choice. You show up for EVERYTHING (I mean doctor's appointments even during her time....anything you can think of...) or for the things you want to and she doesn't give you a hard time about it.

[Kitty C.]

'And, this is not about sports involvement, or requirements for parents to take kids to sports. This is about humiliating your children in front of a staring crowd, just to deliberately try to exclude their father from something any normal father would want to attend.'  I agree 100%........there is a much deeper pathology going on here and it will only get worse if something isn't done about this right now.  It's been SIX YEARS, for God's sake! 

Heck, neither DH nor I wanted to be near the BM when we went to events for SS....but we certainly didn't have to sit right next to her, either.  She even threatened to keep SS from a Cub Scout event years ago because DH said he wanted to attend.  The step-parents (her DH and me) ended up being the only ones who attended for SS...just because she was being a pain in the a$$ and DH didn't want to go as she had already pitched a fit in front of SS about it.  But that was the LAST time that ever happened.  DH flat out told her that he or I would attend SS's events if we chose to and if she didn't like it, she had the choice to stay as far away from us as she chose to.  Amazing how much that reduced the stress on SS...he finally was able to enjoy himself without worrying about whether his mother would make a scene or prevent him from going.

And because DH was adamant in advocating for SS on this issue, last year we ALL stood together on the football field and were all introduced as SS's parents at Parents Night before a game.

I hate to think what kind of PAS this BM is doing to the kids at home, if she's acting like this in public.  If it's this bad even after 6 years, how in the he!! will she handle Dad walking his daughter down the aisle at her wedding??  This lady needs her head examined and the kids probably get some benefit from seeing a counselor or therapist, too.  This HAS to be effecting them negatively, but there's no way of knowing to what extent without professional assistance.

[Momfortwo]

Come on...this one is obvious...Mom is wrong. And Dad DOES need to stand up to her. Actually, he would be doing his children a great disservice not to.

As stated before, the mother is wrong for doing what she is doing.  That doesn't change the fact that the father is wrong for doing what he is doing. 

Yes, he does need to fight for his kids.  In a way that doesn't deprive them of participating in their games.

He's going about it in a way that is depriving the kids of that.

The place to fight is in COURT.  Because that is the only place that can order that the kids participate in sports, regardless of whose week-end it is. 

Right now, both parents are just turning it into a power struggle with the other.  One that the kids are losing. 

He's doing his children a greate disservice by going about this "fight" the way he is.  He needs to take it to court.  Because chances are, given that they have participated in this sport for quite some time, a judge will order that the kids are to be there.  Even if it is the father who has to pick up the children to get them there.  Right now, he can't just go and pick up the kids on her week-end to get them to their game. 

[MomofTwo]

Jeez....

Parent to Child - "Listen honey, I really want to come to every one of your games.  I know I have missed so much and it means the world to me to be there, but me being there seems to be messing this up for you.  Please know how much I want to be there, but I think for now we should do what we have been doing - me going when you are with me and your mom going when she is with you. "

Child - THANK YOU DAD.


This is not about HIM and his rights, this is about what is best for the children.   Mom is wrong, he is wrong.   Nothing else really matters. 

[gemini3]

As stated before, the mother is wrong for doing what she is doing.  That doesn't change the fact that the father is wrong for doing what he is doing. 

Yes, he does need to fight for his kids.  In a way that doesn't deprive them of participating in their games.

He's going about it in a way that is depriving the kids of that.

The place to fight is in COURT.  Because that is the only place that can order that the kids participate in sports, regardless of whose week-end it is. 

Right now, both parents are just turning it into a power struggle with the other.  One that the kids are losing. 

He's doing his children a greate disservice by going about this "fight" the way he is.  He needs to take it to court.  Because chances are, given that they have participated in this sport for quite some time, a judge will order that the kids are to be there.  Even if it is the father who has to pick up the children to get them there.  Right now, he can't just go and pick up the kids on her week-end to get them to their game. 

Exactly - the place to fight is in court.  The court will never order that the kids participate in sports - just as they wouldn't order you to dress your child a certain way or take them to church.  But, if there is a reason, they may order that the father stay away from games when it's mom's parenting time.

As it stands, dad has just as much right as mom to be in the games, and mom pulling them out is involving the children in the "power struggle".  If she feels that there is a good reason for him not to be at the games, then she is the one that should go and ask the court to prohibit him from coming during her parenting time.  Otherwise, he is doing nothing wrong by being there.

She's the one with the problem - she's the one who should address it through the proper channels.  The children are not the proper channel.

[Kitty C.]

I agree..........there is obviously nothing in the current CO that prohibits him from going to any events the children participate in, so if the BM has a problem with that, it is up to HER to find a remedy.  And it is obvious that, with her mentality of the whole situation, the court is the ony avenue she would have.

BUT........I very strongly recommend that if this issue does end up in court, Dad should demand that the children be evaluated to see how they are dealing with the incendiary effects via the mother.

I still adamantly disagree that the father is at fault here as well.  As I stated before, if he could attend any event without her knowledge of him being there and she doesn't remove the children, then the problem is totally on her shoulders, given her past behavior.

Personally, until this issue does get worked out in court (if the BM ever files for it), I would recommend to the dad that he attempt to attend surreptitiously, stay as far in the background or even in the crowd on the other side of the field if need be.  But take pictures or video to show the kids later that he was there.  Obviously the kids are aware that the BM is forcing them choose her over Dad......and the longer this goes on, the more it will effect them long term.

[mdegol]

For the father to have been wrong (ie trying to cause a situation by showing up) he would have had to have known that Mom was going to pull children out the game.  Unless I missed it he seemed surprised.  Maybe he thought she would be angry, or something, but I doubt that he thought she would do that.  So even if you believe the theory that he was doing something wrong by showing up, I don't think it holds water in the first incident.  I mean, if we lived our lives by whether something would upset the other parent, it would be a tough life in many cases.

And if you say, she may have a good reason for being uncomfortable (abusing, stalking ect) she states in her email "kids know that it is me, not you", so that indicates that it is a problem coming from her own end.

There is a second thing about the story that troubles me.  Kids said "have to leave because dad showed up" and daughter goes directly to car.  This is a show of solidarity with the mother.  I would think, normal reaction of kids would be to not want to leave the game.  Unless this dad is a problem, which at least her emails don't suggest, she must be working on them.  So the reaction of the kids is very troubling as well.

Also, he would have a hard time in court explaining that he is not "allowed" to be at their games.  Judge would prob say, just show up.  Like was said, mom would have to go to court to show a good reason that he shouldn't be there.