H1N1 vaccination custody issue.

[ocean]

You never had any legal custody....not through the eyes of the state. Even if you have a birth certificate the courts will make you do a paternity test or have the both parents sign a special form in the hospital.

Until you get your first order through the courts you have no rights. There is a federal law regarding school records...that both parents get them UNLESS there is a court order otherwise. There is not one for medical.

You have an open case but like I said ...this will take months to resolve UNLESS you come to an agreement. If January is a hearing....not a trial...you are at the beginning of this. Dh's took over a year....mine (along with divorce) took 2 years. You can ask for temporary orders on things you want dealt with immediately but the judge may not do it.

[MomofTwo]

I completely agree with Ocean.  You are wrong saying they haven't taken away your rights, you haven't been legally given any.  You haven't said if you were married, I am guessing no.  An unmarried woman is presumed to have sole custody until a court says otherwise.  The school does not need to respond to you or respect your wishes. A birth certificate and last name is not a guarantee of rights in many states. 

[Davy]

Ya'll can agree with each other all you want because you are both making a lot of assumptions.

I'm posting based on the OP.   

It is utterly ridiculous to even imply that a school district can make a custody determination or medicate a child against the parent's will.  Even in NY or FL.

[ocean]

The school is getting permission from the primary parent. That is all they need. They are not making a custody decision...the mother has custody since there is no papers with the courts as of today. That is the law. We may not agree with the law, but that is the way it is.

PS -I am in NY and have fought for fathers when it comes to crazy mothers who try and keep a father from my class party or go on a trip with their kid. Fathers are more protected when it comes to school info and having access. The only thing they cant do is sign there kid out unless it is their day when we have custody papers on file.

[Davy]

Ocean.  Sorry !  You continue to post based on your assumptions.

The OP claimed to be the legal parent with the right to make medical decisions for his child and indicated it has been a long legal process.

You respond that the (1) mother is the primary parent and (2) the school is getting permission from the primary parent..  You do not know if either is true from what has been posted.  As far as anybody knows, the school is medicating all the children while not seeking any parental permission including your imaginary primary parent who, BTW, may also be against the school medicating the child.

The OP also posted that he is not in country and the mother had attempted to hide the child..

For all you know, the OP is the legal primary parent in another country or this country while YOUR DESIGNATED primary imaginary parent has snatched the child.

You just don't know.  Whatever the case, the OP appears to be following the defined legal processes and seeking advice as a responsible parent for his child.  The action or behavior of a school or some social policy can not define parental status or override the wishes of a parent.   

[Kitty C.]

Davy,

The OP stated:

'i have legal custody as the child has my name and is registered by both parents and we are waiting for the court decision to grant sole or joint legal custody.

there has not been any court ruling on the custody and she has the physical custody of the child...'

Since there are NO orders whatsoever, the school is considering the BM to be the primary parent.  Just because the child has the OP's last name doesn't give the OP the right to legal custody.......you know that.  Yes, there are hearings scheduled, but the OP apparently has nothing in writing and signed by a judge that gives him joint legal.  Hence the school is going with the only parent they are legally allowed to.  If this status changes once they go to court and get an order signed, THEN the OP can go to the school with legal info in hand.

And this based on info from the OP, too.........

[Davy]

Kitty .. I'm not being trite, difficult, or argumentative.

The OP and others have a serious issue with a school medicating a child against a parent's will.  Especially a student that just appeared out of no where and whose custody is known to be in question.

There has been nothing posted (but assummed) the school sought any parents permission or the imaginary "primary" parent has legal custody just that the school is making their determination based on the child's living arrangement and the chosen "primary parent" is a female.   Pretty weak considering the seriousness of a child's medical treatment that the school should not be involved with in the first place.   For all the school knows, their designated parent could be on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list and we all know, or should know, they made their determination because the parent they chose is a female.  We might asked the lawn crew or the trash haulers to make a determination (they make more $$ than school folks).

Oh my gawd, I know this because I was a single father raising kids and the schools loved me like hell....and I was tickled pink !!! 

I'm serious.  Do you or Ocean or anybody know the legal authority the school may be using to justify their action.   State ?  Federal ?  DHS policy ?  Local school district policy ?   Or have these statements and like statements been made so often they have become the social gospel.   If I knew at one time ... I've forgotten.

[ocean]

I work in a school and have been on the phone with the district lawyer over a few issues that came up between parents...(not medical issues....)

The school enrolled the child with evidence that the mother is the sole parent. The father came to school and said he is the father and showed a birth certificate. Until he shows court papers stating his rights he has limited access. He CAN get school records and be at school functions. He can NOT take child from school property (until the court papers prove his legal parenting days). He can NOT make decisions at special ed meetings however he can sit in on the meetings. He CAN come on school trips. These are some of the issues I have dealt with.

The medical issue....Pretend the school was not involved and the mother took child to dr office. The dr would have to give shot if mother requested it regardless of fathers concerns as mother has legal rights right now. Once he gets the paper...DIFFERENT story. (By the way...the shots are given free to the school kids around here but need parental consent...my school is not giving them so I cant ask anyone by me...). The school is where the shot is being given to get to the most kids. School is just the housing place for this...it is not given by the school but the state /county health departments.

[Kitty C.]

Davy,

I'm not basing my answer on what the school is legally allowed to do, but what they have to go on based on the lack of evidence.  They have NO orders specifying physical or legal custody, so the only thing they can do is go on the documentation the BM gave them when the child was registered.  If the OP had SOME kind of order (his name on the BC doesn't give him ANY rights) to show the school, then it would be a different story.

This whole issue is based on the lack of an order to direct the school otherwise, so they can only go on the information they have at hand.  And yes........the BM could be Janice the Ripper, but if the school has no knowledge or documentation confirming or denying the fact, they go on what they've got.  And right now, they have no legal documentation giving the OP the right to dispute whether he wants his child vaccinated or not.  Until the school is proven otherwise, the BM is the legal parent and he has NO rights, period.

And ocean is right, it is NOT the school who has final authority on the vaccine...it is the state health dept.  They are only using the school as a venue because it is convenient to get as many kids vaccinated as possible.

[zikzak]

i will clarify more about my situation and also the issue on my question.


first than anything im a single proud father my child has my last name but also is registered in both countries the mother's and mine.

my child was born in the US and i open a process (2 years ago) under the Hague convention for international child abduction, according to the convention my paternity was established once i have the legal documentation that proves that.

birth certificate and registration in both countries as the child has two nationalities.


central authorities of both countries had established and acknowledge my paternity just with a birth certificate, we try mediation but didn't work, finally she filed for sole custody, i the accept go to court as is the only way to reach a parenting plan and visitation rights, i don't have legal representation and exhausted all the possibilities with no avail.


the issue is as davy wrote " The action or behavior of a school or some social policy can not define parental status or override the wishes of a parent. "


for example if there is a health emergency and decisions most be taken will the hospital ask the mother for the father authorization?


it's been 4 years since i don't see my daughter 2 years trying to negotiate and reach an agreement with the mother and 2 years in the Hague convention process, finally we will go to court for a hearing but there is not a date yet.

if this will take 2 years or more (im sure more as the mother and i can't agree in many issues) that's means that i will be able to exercise parenting rights when my daughter is 9 years old at least.


which means my daughter had been away 9 years, it is safe to say that i lost a child. ()