H1N1 vaccination custody issue.

[zikzak]

So, who in your opinion should be responsible for making decisions regarding the child's health and welfare? He has said the child lives with the mother. The person that is there every day with the child providing for and taking care of her or someone thousands of miles away who hasn't seen his child?

you are judging with out knowing the whole story, anyway there is laws that protect the parenting rights of both parents and the child, being miles away could mean Hawaii, Alaska or another country this is not relevant and definitely can't determine the legal custody of any of both parents.(as in my case)


knowing where my child is won't make me part of her life or be part of important decisions for her development.


em i the only single long distance parent? of course not.


thats why there is protection of my rights and those of the child and the state in any form school or medical should wait for the legal resolution to know who has what in terms of responsibilities over a child.

vaccination is not and will not be mandatory and it's up to the parents decide if they wanted or not and school being the one that apply the shot in representation of health department should wait till court rule on the legal custody of the child.


if i was married and we have joint legal custody of the child and can't agree on the vaccination we take this to court and perhaps it will be too late, when court decides that the seasonal vaccination campaign ends.


there is no yet any ruling about the legal custody therefor I'm still hold the rights for my child whether i live in china or in the state next door.

[MomofTwo]

Sorry, but to blunt, you are wrong with your saying you have legal custody. Unless a court has given that to you, you don't have it, and no, the school has no reason to wait for a custodial determination that could take months or years.  They have what they need, Mom's consent.   Everything you said is not relevant, is very relevant and most likely will be a factor in the custody determination.  You are kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. Best of luck to you.

[zikzak]

being the US a signatory state of the Hague convention, is safe to say that this legal custody case it's based in two countries and the child has the protection of both nations so do the parents.


so far i have legal rights as a parent an till there is no court in any of both countries saying the contrary my child and both parents are protected under those same laws.


please understand that i have legal custody of the child right now as in the terms of my country laws and the Hague convention protects also those rights.


court can and will in my case decide if i keep my parenting rights or i loose them, but as today i have the legal custody of my child.

it would help lots if you explain in more detail how in terms of the US law i will not have legal custody of the child, as today because there has not being any court giving me that.

the mother consent will not and can't give any power to the state on decisions that belong to both parents till court says so.

another question rise here, as in my status today. what will be the same issue under emergency medical procedures.


do the hospital need both parents consent before any proceedings?

[Kitty C.]

'there is no yet any ruling about the legal custody therefor I'm still hold the rights for my child whether i live in china or in the state next door.'

I agree with MomforTwo..........if you don't know US Family Law, you obviously don't know what your rights are in the US.  No jurisdiction in this country will recognize you as a parent and give you equal legal rights until you obtain that through a US court, period.  So basically the ONLY issue here is legal custody, who has it and who doesn't.  Because the child and mother are in the US and you aren't.........and nothing has been established in a US court regarding legal custody of your case.......ONLY the mother is recognized as a legal parent to this child....to ANY entity.

But if you don't believe us, contact a family law atty., preferably in the state that the mother and child reside in, and ask them if you have any legal rights regarding the child.  They will tell you the same thing.

'so far i have legal rights as a parent an till there is no court in any of both countries saying the contrary my child and both parents are protected under those same laws.'  No, you do NOT......that is not how child custody works in the US, Hague Convention or not.   

Let me try to explain it another way........even IF you were a US citizen and had a child out of wedlock, even then you would not have any rights to the child and say-so over what happens to him/her until you go to court and get it.  Being a citizen of another country is no different.

Once you have joint legal custody established in the US, then and only then will you have the right to have a say on what happens to your child, regarding education, medical, and anything else that is included in the custody order.  Then you can deal with the issue that brought you here in the first place.  It's called 'getting your ducks in a row'......work on the issues in the order that they need to be addressed.  FIRST, you need to establish legal custody in a US court, THEN you can address the vaccination issue when you have the legal voice to do so.  We can't make it any plainer than that.

[zikzak]

it is clear to me that US family law do defer from other countries but that does not take away my rights as a parent with my children in my country American or what ever jurisdiction children is.

Hague convention deal with the return of the minor to his/her residence and also with visitation issues.


my questions are not out of disbelieve but out of ignorance from the US family law so there is no need to say that if i don't believe you have to go and ask a lawyer.


a US court or any other court in the world that apply to my case can take away my rights, but in my country i have my rights as a parent protected till there is no court on the child's jurisdiction saying the contrary.


visitation among with other issues involves 2 countries, under family law in the US im not recognized as a parent yet, in my country i am.

now it's up to the court decide if recognize me or not based on the hearing(s) in the US and that then will decide on my parenting status on the jurisdiction on my own country.


now i have a question left what about emergencies?

do hospital need my approval for any proceedings?

[mdegol]

By emergencies do you mean:  Child is in car accident-Will they wait for your permission to treat?  No, emergency treatment is admistered to save lives, cannot for obvious reasons worry about the legalities of custody (or else children would die everyday, right?), and does not require permission. Non-emergency treatment would require your permission in most cases.  Your distance is one of the reasons that could be argued for withholding legal custody, since it will be difficult for you to make accurate determinations without "seeing" the situation firsthand.  You do not have legal custody in the US right now.  Your country may be different.  There is every type of law that one could imagine in this world when it comes to child custody, and maybe you are from a place that fathers have final say in all aspects of their children's lives automatically, married or unmarried.  What country are you in, if you don't mind disclosing the info?

PS: Right now, as things stand, you have no legal standing in any decision, so until that final court ruling, mother alone makes all decisions.

[Davy]

Zikzak is correct !!

Kitty / Ocean ... none of us know the details of these parents or the child to be making bold jurisdictional determinations.  In a somewhat like situation between states I was the only parent "anywhere in the world" with the legal authority to make determinations for my children (barring a disastor or emergency).   Certainly not a state governing body without jurisdiction and it is moot for the wrongful parent attempting to execise authority in a governing body without jurisdiction to make valid custody orders.

If the state refuses to stop their illegal acts against the children and parent then a higher court (ie Federal) must step in to force the offending party(s).   That was the defined legal proceedure used in my case.  You may want to know that my authority as a parent was all that was necessary to make that happen....
and for the sake of children the state and it's operatives (ie local school authorities, daycare, etc) must acknowledge that children do not belong to them.  It is the parent(s) authority and responsibility to protect their children from 'the state' and a wrongful parent or stangers.

[Kitty C.]

Davy, I'm not going to argue the point with you, but only state the facts:  the OP has stated numerous times that he has no legal custody through a US court, that it is currently in the process.  He's no different that an unwed father who has not established paternity and obtained a custody order in that he has NO legal say-so in what happens to his child.  Once he establishes legal custody here in the US, then he has EVERY right to have a voice in what happens to his child. Those are the facts, period.

[Davy]

Kitty... you say you are not going to argue and then proceed to be argumentitive and claiming what you are saying is factual.  Is there anyway you can clarify or justify.

The OP has stated numerous times that he is a legal parent in his country so it follows that he does not need a US court to make a custody determination.  The OP is waiting to see if the US court will accept his country determination as provided by the full faith and credit provisions of our uniform acts just like the standards between two states. Agreements reached between two countries also come into play.   

A parents behavior ... ie forum shopping or hiding a child, etc is intended to be a consideration under the statues.  Just FYI.  I did read that 23 states may have removed the international full faith and credit provisions from recent revisions of the uniform acts (probably UCCJEA).  It is possible for the other parent not to be considered the pimary or proper parent.

The OP has also indicated it has been a long running battle with attempts to meditate and work with other parent and shown legimate concern for a child that has been kept from him for numerous years.   

We just do not know enough about the details of this case to be makig negative inferences toward a parent fighting for their child and I'm certainly not being argumentative.

BTW, did you see the news report today where a parent waving an old invalid custody order gained the assistance of the police to pull a sceaming child from a school bus and re-kidnap to another country ?? ..... relevant to this thread.   

[MomofTwo]

You are right, the incident with the little boy on the school bus is relevant to this thread.  That father lied in court saying he had custody in his country so he could gain custody in the US.  He didn't have custody in the US until it was given to him.  Till that time, he had no custodial rights.  Now, that father is wanted on kidnapping charges.  That incident is heartbreaking to watch and any caring parent would never have subjected that little boy to him being retrieved in that manner.

In your own words you said "The OP is waiting to see if the US court will accept his country determination...." so simply put, until such time, he has no custodial rights in the United States.

You are very assumptive...the poster has never said the child's parent has kept him from seeing the child.

It would help poster if you stated all relevant facts.