Dr. called me

[Kitty C.]

'......you can't prove an asthma attack was precipitated by smoke rather than another factor.'  Maybe a layperson can't, but a medical specialist CAN.  They can run tests...not so different than allergy testing...to prove what triggers the asthma.

One thing to realize, phil..........this is not criminal court we're talking about here, where you have to have proof 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.  This is family court where all they need is the preponderance of the evidence to weigh in favor of one party over the other...at the discretion of the judge.  So if you come to court with enough evidence, whether you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt or not, and convince the judge, you CAN get an order to eliminate anyone in either household from smoking around the child.  You can even get sanctions in the order if the no-smoking order is violated....some judges have reversed custody, because we're talking about child endangerment here.

[phil]

Kitty,
I absolutely agree with you and know we are talking family court.  That is why it is extremely important to get an order stating no one can smoke around the child and the child must be given meds as prescribed.  That is the posters starting point. 

It is very important to understand there are different classifications of asthma..intrinsic, extrinsic and mixed.  Understanding that is critical because intrinsic asthma is not allergy-related, in fact it is caused by anything except an allergy. It may be caused by inhalation of chemicals such as cigarette smoke or cleaning agents, taking aspirin, a chest infection, stress, laughter, exercise, cold air, food preservatives or a myriad of other factors. (which would be important if it is this type and Mom is smoking around the child.)

Treatment of intrinsic asthma is not easy as it may not be known what triggers the asthma in the first place and therefore avoiding triggers can be impossible.
Avoidance of things with strong odours such as perfume or cleaning agents may be possible at home. Not going to smoky areas, avoiding air which is hot/cold/humid/dry - depending on your particular trigger and keeping calm can only be maintained up to a point.

Extrinsic is when an "allergen" or an "antigen" is a foreign particle which enters the body. The immune system over-reacts to these often harmless items, forming "antibodies" which are normally used to attack viruses or bacteria. Mast cells release these antibodies as well as other chemicals to defend the body.
Extrinsic asthma is caused by this type of immune system response to inhaled allergens such as pollen, animal dander or dust mite particles.

The different types of asthma are very important to understand because if the child is diagnosed with extrinsic asthma, while second hand smoke is always harmful, it would not be what precipitated the asthma attack.   It is very important for the poster to clarify with the doctor what type of asthma it is. 

Also regarding what you said, there can't be any sanctions if there aren't any orders forbidding it, so that is why I said the focus needs to be on getting the orders. 

[Kitty C.]

Phil, you missed the whole point of my post.  Even tho I've been involved in healthcare for 25+ years, I will not debate diag. or tx with anyone, but will give my opinion based upon what I've been taught.

None of my post had anything to do with what kind of asthma the child had......that is not for me to decide, only the practitioner diagnosing her.  What it did have to do with is evidence and what kind of weight it is given in court.  Only in criminal court is evidence held at such a high standard, but in family court, sometimes all you have to do is allege (many here can attest to that) and a judge will make an order in your favor.  So coming to court with the child's smoke-filled clothing and a statement from the diagnosing MD stating the smoke is doing her serious harm will carry a LOT of weight.  It is still on the whim of the judge presiding as to how much weight they choose to give it.

As for sanctions, you HAVE to have orders in place in order to have sanctions against them.  My point is don't wait and put the child's life in danger by having the other parent violate the order and be forced to go back to court to have it enforced (contempt).  By having sanctions added with the order when it's made, it will save the child's health, stress, time, and money.

[grapeape]

phil....
my focus is legal... if the CO at the very least contains a portion referring to following doctors advice, giving proper medications the OP can file for contempt. and BM telling the OP personally that she didn't give the child all the meds can be enough. depends on the judge. and on that basis have additional more strict wording entered into the CO.
with a cps investigation... i did achieve this contempt. it can be done. even without a no-smoking clause.

my other question as to whether or not the asthma developed after the CO was entered... goes to substantial change. it constitutes substantial change.

the OP just needs to collect as much documentation as possible. and yes the test will work since it tests for exposure in the last 24 hours. so if an appointment is made for the day the child returns from BM's house. doesn't mean that BM smoked but reasonable enough to show that despite the doctors caution she allowed someone to expose the child to smoke since the child was not in the possession of the OP.

it can work... just have to get ducks in a row. and for the sake of a child a parent would do everything in their power to warn the court of the possible threat to their child.

I have been in this situation and went to court.