Question about variable expenses

[bingobumpkin]

Have a question concerning variable expenses?

We took my boyfriends ex-wife back to court for more custody and was granted extra time during the summer and misc. placement dates. With the new amount of time, it is considered a shared placement and child support was reduced by XX amount of dollars. In shared placement child support order the Court Commissioner orders each party to a certain percentage towards the variable expenses, usually by the amount of time you have the child.

This is the wording from new order for child support:
            B. That Variable expenses shall be shared between the parties with the Petitioner paying seventy (70%) percent and the Respondent being responsible for thirty (30%) percent of said expenses. However, said variables expenses shall not include the private school tuition for the parties minor child. The party incurring the variable expense shall forward proof to the other parent within thirty (30) days with reimbursement being due thirty (30) days thereafter."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>


Has not been a problem with us, and have faithfully reimburse promptly our 30% whenever the was a expense submitted to us with in days of submission and our medical expense of 50% also reimburse promptly within a couple of days.

Since we have his daughter for 8 weeks, we have signed her up for 6wks of swimming, 6 wks of volleyball, Boys and Girl's Club and Red Cross Babysitting Course during the summer, with a cost of $255.00. We have paid the total cost for these courses and she has started the first course of RCBC today.

We submitted to  his exwife with the registration reciepts from all the programs along with the cancelled checks as proof on May 27,2011. We received a email two days later with reguards to the receipts of programs and that since she was not informed or her input of these programs, that she is not going to pay any of our expense quoting that it was a entertainment expense and not a variable expense.

In our new CO from the court it also states: Activities in which the child partcipates, including hunting, shall be at the discretion of the parent with placement at the time the activities occur. So we did not have to confer with her about any of the programs and none of these programs interfers with her placement over the summer, all programs are on our placement and days.

I was under the inpression that these programs are a variable expense according to what the law in our state says about variable expense. Here is the law:

(29) "Variable costs" means the reasonable costs above basic<o:p></o:p>

support costs incurred by or on behalf of a child, including but not<o:p></o:p>

limited to, the cost of child care, tuition, a child's special needs,<o:p></o:p>

and other activities that involve substantial cost.<o:p></o:p>

The definition of "basic support cost" according to DWD40 is:
                         (3) "Basic support costs" means food, shelter, clothing, transportation,<o:p></o:p>
                            personal care, and incidental recreational costs.



   Are we wrong with assuming that these summer programs are a variable expense that should be reimburse within 30 days the 70% from his exwife?? 

Anyone who has dealed with variable expenses before would be a great help for us. I am preparing to send out a email about what I have quoted here and the wording in all the orders and asking again for her 70% but I wanted to get some input from others before I send.

Thanks ahead for anyones help.   

[ocean]

I would have to ask, has the mother requested activities expenses before?
To me, you have her for the summer and put her in all these programs, you pay, unless you have to work and using this as daycare. Seems a lot for 6 weeks. Also for any amount, I would have a least given her a heads up, instead of a bill.
The court order is very vague about what activities are covered...substantial? who determines that?

[MixedBag]

sounds to me too like that's day care.....and $255 total, expecting 70% back?  Pick and choose your battles and think about how much it costs not only in terms of dollars but in terms of emotional crapola when it comes to going back to court.

[bloom6372]

I see these activities as "incidental recreational costs" covered under CS (which would mean you all would pay during your time), as they are recreational activities for the child. Personally, I'm thinking "variable expenses" are medical and dental care, educational needs, etc.

[bingobumpkin]

To Oceans:
In the past the ex wife had put the child in same programs and more with us pay half the cost of these programs (school and summer programs) Never notified us of any these programs or supplied us information or schedules and just gave us a bill for half the cost. We never had a issue with paying these cost and reimbursed promptly. She submitte bill on friday pickup and we reimbursed on Sunday dropoff. The swimming program she had in last summer was $800 alone for just swimming alone besides the other programs.

Last summer when we went back to court and the GAL had us have his daughter for 4 wks at the end of summer. We put her in programs to meet other children since she know no one here in Wisconsin. The ex wife did not like any program we put her in and wanted her pulled out of these programs, thus the order of the the court stating "the programs are at the discrection on the parent at the time of activities". The GAL knew she wold never agree to any program we put his daughter in no matter what we choose. 

My boyfriend and I both do work and in a way these programs are for daycare but mostly for his daughter to gain some friends here in wisconsin, she was pulled out of kindergarden at the start of the divorce and moved to Illinois and never got to know any other children since then, since she lives in Illinois and was only here every other weekend. We want her to have friends here.

She did know that his daughter was going to be in summer programs from last year, we did not know what programs we were going to put her in until know. These are same programs that we had to pay half for the previous summer.

To mixed bag:
The 70% was decided upon by the court commissioner in our case, both his ex and my boyfriend agree to the percentage on variable costs. She agreed to the 70%. I would mention that his daughter is 12 years old and this is not considered daycare I believe. I feel that of the $255 her share of 70 % ($171.50) for eight weeks
is only $22 a week. Last year the bills she submitted  was $1376.23 for our share alone for just summer programs that his ex choose to terminate before the end of the programs with out consulting us either that his daughter was no longer partcipating, but had us assume that she was on our weekend so we could not pick her up for the weekend.  We have had an emotional crapola for the past 6 years of court for anything with his ex and now things have finally turned around and people are seeing her for who she really is. We would do this ourselfs again so the money is not a issue and we have been put thru an emotional wringer with his ex that now when we see court papers it does not even bother us anymore, the only one is maybe his daughter but his daughter really wants to partcipate in these programs but she even knows that her mom will not allow that. Thus the court order "activities at the descrection of the parent at the time of activities."

To bloom6372:
The "incidental recreation costs" are going to the movies, rollar skating, parks, camping, fishing, swimming at pools and ect . The cost of these programs I feel would be considered other activities that involve a substaintial cost under what is variable cexpense in WI law.

I would like to say that his ex is still receiving a child support check of $648 and a SSD check of $594 for his daughter with a total of over $2400 two months that his daughter is not there.

In the past his ex was receiving $1400 a month between his CS and SSD check every month alone, this does not including the monies of her own and her fiance for the past 6 years with us faithfully paying half of medical, dental, schhol supplies and misc school supplies and all the programs she choose to put their daughter into and drop her out of when it became inconveinent for the ex. I feel that asking for $171.50 her 70% is not bad for the summer. We still have the cost of half for medical & dental but now 30% for school and variable expenses which like I said his ex submits the bill on friday at pickup, we always reimbuse by dropoff on sunday, no questions asked by us. just a check. We have tried to take the high road over these past 6 years and tried to keep the amount of damage down to a minimal for his daughter sake.

Thank you all for answering and have great input  but I still do not have a clue what we should do? any other sugestions?

[Kitty C.]

'I would like to say that his ex is still receiving a child support check of $648 and a SSD check of $594 for his daughter with a total of over $2400 two months that his daughter is not there.'

One thing to keep in mind....unless it specifically states in their CO that CS is waived while child is with father, then yes, it HAS to be paid to the BM even while the child is with him.

Been on both sides of the fence on this issue.  When I received CS, DS was spending ALL summer with his dad in CA, except for the first and last weeks.  And I got CS every summer, as well.  The thing is, regardless of whether DS was there or not, I was still paying for a place for him to live and the utilities to keep it up.  The only thing I didn't pay for while DS was gone was his food...that's it.  And since CS is supposed to be the other parent's share of the basic costs for the child, those costs don't stop just because the child isn't there.

As for the rest of the expenses, if BF has paid for the same thing in the past and she is refusing to pay for them now, his only recourse may be to file for contempt on her refusal to pay.

[gemini3]

Ok, I'm just going to put aside all the court stuff and go with the "do the right thing" theory.  Personally, I wouldn't want my husbands ex being able to write a check from our account for $178.50.  I'm assuming you wouldn't want that either.  When you run up unnecessary and incidental expenses, and then expecting her to pay for them, that's essentially what you're doing.

Based on the states definition of variable expenses being those of substantial cost, I don't think the items you billed her for would qualify.  I'm thinking that definition is for big ticket items that are necessary, like medical expenses, etc.  Not babysitting classes.

In my mind, if you choose to sign them up for the activity, then you bear the burden of the cost, unless the other parent has agreed in advance to share the cost with you.   You may think these extra activities are important, but you're spending someone else's money.

[MixedBag]

Bingo -- you missed my point.

Let's say she doesn't reimburse you the $178 some odd dollars.

Is THAT worth going to court over?

Now.....I see that she asked to be reimbursed for similar expenses in her area.....

I would never suggest you mix child support with this subject, BUT if you've properly asked for reimbursement, and didn't get it, maybe you could subtract it from the amount she requests from you.  And CLEARLY send an itemized statement with your logic and that only contains this subject.  Not medical, not child support, not anything else.

good luck!

[ocean]

Keep the receipts...
If/When she asks you the next time for activities deduct your amount from the summer. Pay in full any medical expenses though...
If she says anything when you deduct, let her take it back to court.