Family Evaluation??? I don't think so...

[Black Watch]

Hello all,
I am Father and petitioner in my case.  5 years and 3 hearings ago the court found that I had earned joint legal/physical custody, and 50/50 visitation of our 10 yr. twins. (Was she pissed...)  She took me back to court again yesterday making all the usual insinuations and allegations, and demanding full everything... The judge ordered both of our families be 3111 evaluated prior to determining any changes in custody.  After reading about what will be involved in this evaluation, I am calling it quits.  I feel that this evaluation is a direct attack on what little pride I have left after all of the previous hearings, and 5 years of berating and ridicule from the mother.
My twins excel socially and scholastically, but unfortunetely have learned from their mother how to manipulate situations by lying, omitting truths and embellishing situations to their advantage. I know they would rather be at the zero consequence, no boundry, no responsibilty home of their mother than my old fashioned household.  I'll be damned if some court ordered "social worker" is going to probe around my entire life that is spread wide open, like an orifice search, give me the Rorshak test, throw down some chicken bones and twigs and then rate my parenting skills.  I am a damn good Father, but I've got my dignity...Right or wrong it feels good to get that off my chest.

[ocean]

Don't give up. She really needs to prove you are unfit and since you already went through the process and won says a lot! Let them come and look what a good father you are. They will see what she is trying to do again. They see it all the time. Maybe you could prove PAS this time and get FULL custody.
Good luck!

[Black Watch]

No doubt. But I re-married 4 years ago and the evaluation involves my wife, her children and ALL of their histories as well.  She has stuck it out with me through all of these years of the mother's bulls*it, attorney fees, disrespectful kids...in the long run I don't think she signed on for this.  When I gotta pee in a cup for my ex, it's over...When I have to ask my wife and her children to pee in a cup for my ex, it's over x a million.

[notnew]

Black Watch,

WHAT are you thinking!  We have all gotten to the fed up point where we think and maybe even say this is it - the end. But taking it past that is not even an option. Believe me, this is exactly what the BM is expecting. Don't let her push your buttons. YOU have to change the dynamics of the relationship with her. Just because you two aren't romantically involved anymore, don't think for one minute that you don't interact with you exactly the same as you did when married. This is why you aren't getting along now, becuase you are both behaving the same and it didn't work when married.

You cannot get her to change. BUT you can change how you react. Keeping your cool and not caving in to her demands, reacting the way she anticiapates, etc., will be a case building direction for you and it will also throw her for a loop. She will either behave worse which will show the court her true intentions, or she will settle down (never seen this happen but it IS a possibility).

It is hard to understand court actions and how things proceed. What kinds of accusations has she made? Being open to having your life examined while a huge imposition, does show the court that you are on the level. I am not famaliar with the investigation you refer to. If you have an attorney, speak with him/her about the validity of the accusations made and the alternatives you may be able to pursue. You have to keep an eye out to make sure your attorney is doing what is best for you.

Court is slow and methodical. Sucks. They take people at their word. sucks. Family court sucks. You want to get out of it - sure drop the relationship with your child and just pay your support and go away. Will that make you a happier person? I don't think so. Is it the best thing for your kid(s)? I don't think so. You have to be a parent no matter how rough the going is. Remember, this is temp. and they will be grown one day. What kinds of memories do you want them to have? That dad got the hell out of dodge and didn't give a crap or that dad fought tooth and nail to keep the relationship with them. Even if they turn out to say they hate you and other stupid things, YOU know you did what is right and that is ALL that matters.

Please calm down and think clearly before making a decision you may regret forever.

[4honor]

My Life Story (or devastation in three generations)

I am now 40 years old, but I still can hardly believe that I can have access to my father any time I want, without the extreme emotional extortion I suffered as a child of divorce. My father was not a perfect husband, but he was a devoted and loving father. He paid all his support even when he couldn't put food on his own table. He took every moment he could with us, though he was a long haul trucker and "home" was a rarity.
 
My mother had custody of us kids. She had many unresolved issues from her own childhood and she carried her grudges around like badges of honor. She asked him to leave --  so she could get a grant to finish college -- and then she was mad when he did. She asked for the divorce and then was bitter when my father did not fight her. He got the debt, she got the house, the kids, and the "good" car. She got child support and the full mortgage payment paid, too. She was angered by every kindness he showed and infuriated with each conflict he side-stepped.
 
When my father started dating, something seemed to snap in her. She seemed to spew more venom than a cobra.  She would discuss every element of the divorce with me (I was 16) and it became clear that I was expected to join her in her mission to hurt my father, or suffer the consequences of her wrath turned on me instead of him. She used to throw things... at him, at us, just in general. She lashed out at any of us who did not agree with her. She beat on my little sister once for asking if Daddy was coming home. I thought she was certifiably insane, but no one took my diagnosis seriously.
 
She constantly told me about her fantasy to catch my father and his girlfriend in bed and cut off his penis and sew it up into his girlfriend's vagina to fester and kill her too. She called him every name in the book, but she mostly ranted and raved on about "YOUR FATHER and his WHORE!"
 
 I refused to attend my father's wedding, though I knew it broke his heart. I was both protesting his marriage to a woman I disliked - for no particular reason I could put my finger on – and I had to stay home to keep my mother from that suicide attempt she was always threatening. She had tried suicide 3 times that I know of. She did it as a manipulative drama kind of thing every time we wanted to spend time with my father. It was easier to tell my father that he was a lousy father and I never wanted to see him, than to have to spend all my weekends at home indoors, just to make sure my mother didn't really go through with the threatened attempts. She always let me know that she was doing it because of him or because we children were not loyal to her. She saw our innate love for our Dad as a personal attack.
 
I tried to be the first one in the door after school - so I could be sure and shield my younger brother and sister from any scenes they shouldn't see. I was convinced she was going to actually commit suicide and be lying on the floor in the kitchen or in her bedroom and she would leave some ranting lunatic suicide note blaming it all on my father and our disloyalty. I was determined that if she did it, they would never have to see her that way.
 
I did what I had to in order to survive in her care. I felt responsible for keeping my siblings safe and going along enough to satisfy Mom. I never stopped loving my father, but I acted abominably to him for many years, finally taking a college scholarship clear across the country from my mother and her influence. I was the poster child for fatherless daughters. I drank and smoked and tried a little pot, and was promiscuous and got pregnant out of wedlock -- all before age 18. I allowed my mother to complete a successful father-ectomy and went around with a hole in my chest that went all the way through. No matter what I threw into the hole, I couldn't fill it up, couldn't numb it out, couldn't drown it or seal it or put someone new and interesting in his place.
 
My relationship with my father improved when my mother died of cancer. I truly believe her bitterness ate her up. Surprisingly, my father mourned my mother when she died. I feel guilty that I could not even cry for her the first seven years after her death.
 
I took care of my mother in her final days. I was with her the night she died. She was stubborn and wouldn't take her morphine -- said she didn't want to get addicted. Then later after holding her pill and falling asleep for a while, she'd awaken, see the pill and accuse my father of trying to get me to poison her. She was not in her right mind. When she finally went to sleep that last night, I lay down to rest too. I dreamed I sat at the kitchen table with her and spoke to her as one adult to another, and the bitterness was gone from her face, her hair was all back and long and shiny. She looked at peace. I dreamt she said all the things I needed her to say, that she was proud of me and that she was sorry for hurting me -- for damaging me -- that she loved me. I dreamt she told me she had to go, then she walked out the door and slammed it shut. I awoke at the kitchen table and found she had died during the night.
 
 My father and I have worked hard for many years to undo the damage to our relationship. For so long it was strained and uncomfortable. However, he could not heal the damage because he did not cause it.
 
I have found considerable peace in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I used to think all those people who are slain in the Spirit were faking it -- flopping on the floor and all. Then one day a lady at church who was laughing uncontrollably, touched me on the shoulder. I couldn't stop laughing. I fell to the floor and while I laughed so hard I could barely breathe, I was given a vision of Christ cutting my chest laid open and taking a large, slimy, ugly rock from my chest. Then Christ opened His own chest and cut out His own heart and laid it in my chest.  The heart began to beat and He told me now I would heal. The dead weight I carried around and physically felt for years was gone from that day. And the bitterness I had swallowed was missing from its usual place. I actually felt at peace for the first time in my life, though I had been a Christian for years.
 
All the while, my father did what he has always done, loved me gently but unrelentingly. He took his stand and never gave any ground. Our relationship has mellowed and aged well, like a fine wine. We left the hard stuff in the background and tiptoed around it for quite awhile and simply went on. We concentrated on learning who each other was. It worked for the longest time, and then I grew up enough to actually hear the answers to those hard questions.
 
Memorial day last year, at age 39, I asked my father why he didn't come and get us from her ... specifically why he let her continue her mental and emotional abuse, blackmailing behaviors out of us in the name of loyalty... why couldn't he rescue us? I made it clear I was not blaming him, but I needed to know. The whole story came tumbling out after that. It was then he came to fully understand the mental games and physical abuse I and my siblings went through at the hands of our mother. It broke his heart, and in so doing, broke mine all over again for what I had put him through by not staying strong against my mother's manipulations. I always thought that my father knew what my mother was doing and that he either would not or could not rescue us from the situation. It left me thinking he was an "ineffective little man". I now understand that he did not know. The truth has indeed set me free from so much of the hurt. He sincerely insists he could have changed it -- would have changed it -- if he had been told sooner. I think his knowing WHY I had taken a side against him helped him to forgive me and heal the wounds I caused him as well. I thank God that I was given a second chance with my Dad.
 
I have been married to a good man for the past 9 1/2 years. I should have run after the first date. He told me then that he was having trouble with his ex-wife and getting consistent access to his son. He described a conflictive relationship. Though I did not know of Parental Alienation, I was certain I had seen the same character flaws in his ex that I had experienced with my mother. It did not help matters that they both have the same first name.
 
Over the years his son has announced that his father "eats dog food", that my husband was "no more than a f*cking babysitter", that he could do whatever he wanted at our house (a meeting of the board of education with his seat of knowledge nipped that one in the bud). When he returned the next time, he insisted that his mother told him to call police if he got spanked again. He tried to harm his little brother, so he got spanked. We called police and they informed my step son that if his father had not done so, they would be happy to come and administer the spanking under the same circumstances. He has announced that my husband was his step father and that his older half brother's father was his real father and only his mother and that half brother were his ""REAL family.
 
She degraded and brow beat the child every time he was not loyal to her -- each time he asked for more than the puny every other weekend from 6 Friday to 6 Sunday with his Dad or his grandparents. He never spent a summer with us, visitation was a constant struggle and still is today. The child was held for ransom on more than one occasion before she would allow visitation, even sending him to our home with lice -- knowing he had it -- but she only treated herself and her other son with the prescribed medication.
 
She married a man she NOW says was physically abusive, but she asked my husband to let that man adopt the child -- IN FRONT OF THE CHILD -- and made them both cry!
 
She got mad that my husband was concerned she would send the child through surgery and not say a word until she needed it as an excuse to deny yet another visitation - 3 days later. She is not shy about calling my husband names and does not hold her tongue in front of my stepson. Her favorite dressing down to give my step son is that he is "just like his father". Since he has witnessed what she thinks of his father on many occasions, he doesn't have to ask for clarification.
 
My poor husband, he was a defeated man when we married. And I encouraged him. He effectively re-grew his back bone and she has hated me since. I have been physically attacked by his ex. I have been targeted, and when she couldn't push my buttons, she targeted my children.
 
We have emails and tape recordings of the child's mother bragging about what awful thing she had insisted that my step son do this week.  It became apparent that she was harping on REAL, because she ultimately convinced the child that his younger siblings were not his REAL brothers, and that stabbing, beating, attempting to strangle them, pushing them out of cars, down the stairs and finally raping and sodomizing them was OK, cause .... they weren't REAL! He actually used it to defend his actions to his father and grandparents when he finally admitted to the acts. He is one messed up child. The Child Rape in the First Degree conviction will never go away, even though he was tried as a child. He is failing out of school and will likely be violated on his probation and SSODA treatment program -- he was almost tossed in Juvie to spend the remainder of his sentence already once. He has no more chances and he is only 15.
 
My history helped me to keep focus when the sexual abuse came out. I, in my most insane moments, was more concerned about my step son getting treatment and this never happening again than on his punishment. I focused on treatment for both the younger boys too. The child's mother fought it all the way since we had suggested it first. We asked her to cooperate with authorities and she reactively devalued every suggestion. Every concern was pushed aside as if the repeated rapes my children suffered were only orchestrated to annoy HER.
 
She, like my mother, destroyed this child and is now not happy with the results. She did the same to her other son and he has failed to finish high school, got tossed out of several youth programs and now torments small children at the public pool... he has no relationship with his father and she blames the young man's father, as does the young man. It is an ongoing pattern, and one that must stop.
 
It saddens me that these alienating parents can act with impunity and destroy the lives of their own children in an attempt to hurt their ex's or their ex's family. They exchange so much pain for no gain whatsoever. They inflict so much misery that becomes a gift that keeps on giving. It is self propagating. Its like presenting your child with flesh eating bacteria, the kind that goes straight to the heart.
 
Alienation is such a powerful tool because one parent feeds misinformation to children too young and inexperienced in life to understand that even parents will lie and twist things for their own ends. If you keep the kids from the other parent long enough, the kids begin to believe that it is because the target parent does not love them enough to rescue them from the emotional onslaught.
 
Instead of thriving, they learn to survive. Survival mode is a hard thing to outgrow and it still haunts my responses to the people around me. It has cost me more than one job, and many relationships. I cannot stress enough that Parental Alienation and other conflictive, destructive behaviors harm the children more than the other parent.
 
What fit loving parent would want to throw the kids under the revenge train just to derail their Ex? That's right, NONE.


~ 4honor

[HappyMom2]

PLEASE ... rethink your decision.  Your kids need you!!  I read the long response that 4honor posted.  She is right ... all it takes is a good man to do nothing in order for evil to triumph (I love this quote.)  Take the anger past the ex.  Yes, it's hard.  But don't get caught in her great big web of lies.  That's exactly what she wants ... I cannot say it enough:  look past her tricks and her pushing your buttons, and Think. About. Your. Children.  Your children will never forget all you are doing for them.  You and your children have many years ahead, and that's the goal you need to stay focused on.

Don't let evil triumph ...

[Black Watch]

I appreciate all the feedback, but is there anyone out there who has been through one or going through one?
Truthfully, my kids are partiallly at fault for this entire situation because they are the ones who told their mother (and anyone who would listen) how horrible it is at my house...the unfair rules, the outrageous chores, their terrible stepmother.  If I fight for the twins, then I am defending the fact that they lied, (and they know they lied).  Since they were old enough to understand right from wrong, I have tried to explain to them to never lie, to respect themselves, that their honor is their most precious possesion.  Their mother has made it impossible for the twins to see the truth in what I am saying.  Their mother lies and everyone loves her.  She cheats, and never is held accountable.  She decieves people and makes it look like she is their best friend.  The twins have learned by example.
This is what is wrong with society as a whole...zero consequences

I love my twins to death, but I am having a hard time not letting them fall on this, so that at least they understand that their Father was not willing to sacrifice his honor for their crying wolf.  Their only "punishment" is that they do not get to see dad as often.  My punishment is the anguish that they did not trust me.

[hagatha]

Black,

Yes the kids are worth it!!!

Just because your kids act like their mother doesn't mean they will become like her. They are influenced by you also. To give up now will mean they have no alternitive lifestyle to cling to.

My DH and I did all the evals. Was it a pain in the ass at the time? Hell Yeah. Was it worth it in the end? Absolutely. Did it take forever for my SD to grow a brain? Of course.

So if you bail now, their mother will undoubtedly tell them you really don't care and she is the ONLY one that loves them. And they will believe that. They will have no choice but to believe this since you bailed.

Do what has to be done. Get them back in your home and call them on the lies and the manipulation. Let them know you do hold them responsible for their actions because that's what being a GOOD parent is really about.

The thing they will remember the most is that you didn't give up on them even when it looked like they gave up on you.

The Witch

[notnew]

Your dignity has nothing to do with this in regards to your children. They did not sit down together and formulate a plan to attack Dad and his new wife then carry it out.

They had a mom who spoke badly about Dad and his new wife. Mom questions them everytime they come home from your house. If there is ONE thing that is even REMOTELY controversial (like SM wouldnt let me watch XX show - that Mom lets them watch all the time), dad made us do the dishes, clean our room, wouldn't take us to the mall, didn't take us to the movie mom said he could take us to, etc.). Get my drift?  So, when there is an "issue" like this, mom capitilizes on it.

Remember when you were a teenager and "hated" your parents for being on your back. You talked to your friends about it and they agreed with you, supported your ideas and complaints, and even added fuel to the fire sometimes. Were your issues and problems "real" or just a product of your immaturity? I hope you see where I am going with this.

SO, moving on with that train of thought, while the twins lied and behaved in a manner they KNOW you disapprove of, their actions were driven and supported by their mother who has an ulterior motive in creating this scenario.

SO, while you need to make it clear to the twins that you KNOW they have lied and you do not approve of it,  you also need to understand that this is not a situation that they can be punished for in a typical fashion. I cannot remember how old you said the twins are. My advise to you and your wife is to maintain a stable and consistent household for those girls. Establishing your credibility with the court at every possible opportunity is your best course of action. Time will be your friend in the end I hope. You need to fully document each and every thing that your ex does that is contrarty to the children's best interest.

It is IMPORTANT to stop thinking about this in terms of what is happening  to YOU and your family. The court does not care about the emotional aspect of what you are going through. That does not mean your feelings don't mean anything, they do, just not to the court so they aren't interested in hearing how offended you are at the ex's actions.

What they are interested in is the best interests of the child being served. So, that is a catch phrase you need to learn to implement in your vocabulary. When the mom makes false allegations it creates an environment that is not in the best interest of the children, when mom involves the children in her hostility towards you, it is not in the best interest of the children. Limiting the amount of time the children spend with you is not in the best interest of the children.

Remember, the kids are not being punished by not being able to see you as much,  YOU ARE being punished by your ex. The kids are being REWARDED for a job well done. It is important to remember that these kids love both of you. They don't want to see that a parent would be hurtful to them so the best course of action is to believe the lie because mom is happy with them for doing so. The consequences for what they are doing to you are minimilized because they don't spend nearly as much time with you and it is easier for them to piss you off instead of her. If you buy into the game your ex if playing and there is conflict with you and the twins each time they see you over this, it only strengthens moms side on this matter.

As I said, you need to let those kids know that you disapprove of them telling lies. However, you need to keep that conversation short. Then move on with spending as much quality time with them as you can. When they step out of line let them know you won't tolerate X behavior and move on. It is sad, but the position you are now in really limits the amount of REAL parenting can effect on your children. What can  you do, restrict them? I have taken TV away from my child a time or two or canceled a planned activity as a consequence for actions. However, when the other parent has a no rules atmosphere, your hands are tied. That is why I advise to build a case towards reversal of custody due to actions by the other parent that are not in the child's best interest.

There is a lot of REAL help for you on this board. Read the articles. Post your legal questions to socrateaser. He is really a God send and has helped me and numerous others and can even help when you have your own attorney.

I do hope you are able to achieve the best outcome for your and your children's sakes.

[skye]

yes...kids lie its what they do and a wise person once told me that children always lash out at the person (s) they feel safest with ...please also think about all the change that has taken place in the kids life and WHY they push you...as a child whose parents divorced and remarried I can tell you so much about that...have you thought that maybe they are testing you ......you left their mom ...you have a new family...they need to know you are not going anywhere...that you wont leave them too...they need to know you will love them and fight for them always and that they come first...that they will never be replaced....think about therapy..for a blended family...meaning you the kids all of them and wife...it will help all of you ...blending families is SO hard on everyone...

you are right wife did not sign up for this...but as a full time stepmom...and one who has been to hell and back with BM and kids...I accept it is part of the package or I would have walked a long time ago...she has kids too so she knows ...just make sure she has one day a week for her ...so she can balance



I have been through 2 home evals...they are not as bad as they seem and I would be glad to talk to you and answer any questions you may have...please don't give up..