Skids given right to chose?

[step_momma_to_2boys]

We recently found out that my skids' BM is letting her older son (he is now 14) move to another country to live with his dad for a while.  Our problem with that is her main argument in court was that the 3 boys needed to stay together.  In fact, she got her older son to put on quite a show for the judge, tears and all.  When the judge made his decision, he said it would be detrimental to older brother to not have his 2 younger brothers living with him.  She is about to get remarried (for the 3rd time) this summer, and then the older son is going to Egypt.  My 2 ss's have time and again said they wished they could live with their dad.  I seriously doubt that she would let them move in with us.  They are 11 1/2 and 10.  She has been letting her older son choose where he wants to live since he was 5 !!!  He has gone back and forth between her house and his BD's house.  He hasn't lived with his dad since 2001 though.  Primarily because I think she revoked his "right to chose" while she was going through the custody battle with us.

I sincerely feel that her whole argument was a farse for the child support.  We have seen how when she gets CS, she buys a new vehicle.  But, in the past, when we did 50/50 custody and she wasn't getting CS, her truck was repo'd.  When she got custody again, and the CS, she bought another new vehicle.  In fact, we are financing her honeymoon because of the arrears she received last year.

As long as she has her older son living with her, we feel that we have no avenues to go down to get my DH's 2 boys living with us.  But now??  Who knows.  I am pretty sure that BM has put it in my 2 ss's heads that they cannot ever come live with us because the judged gave her custody.  So, besides the occasional "I wish we didn't have to go back"  or "I wish we could go to school here", I don't know if they'll bring it up and ask their dad about moving in.

We are still extrememely concerned with yss's grades and him not doing his homework, because in his words, "there is no one to help me because my mom is too busy."  I sincerely do not want another WW6 between us all, but I cannot help but feel compelled to do what is best for the boys, which is having them live with us.

What would you do in this situation??  Should DH talk to his boys (seperately, or together) or even at all, about their wishes about where they live?  We have even considered that one of them, instead of two, may want to move in with us.  Not that they both haven't said they would like to be here.  But I feel that yss would chose to live with BM because then he would be the "only child" for a while.  OSS's bond with his dad is incredible.  I am positive that he would chose to live with us, if he were given the chance to make that choice.

[MixedBag]

a lot depends on which state you are in.

Most states take the child's preferences into consideration.

But I know (or rather I think I know), that GA allows the child to make the decision at age 14 and that it is binding.  Parents might as well give in because the judge is gonna go with the child's wishes.

I know an EX too that used the "kids need to stay together" philosophy, and over the years it crumbled and one by one, the kids transferred to the other parent.

There is no right answer as to "what to do" besides keep your eye on the whole situation and the changes as they happen.

School is an important factor -- but not a guaranteed deciding factor.  Heck, almost nothing is a guaranteed deciding factor in family court.

[step_momma_to_2boys]

We are in Oregon.  My SS are 11 1/2 and 10.  3 yrs ago, when we went to court, the judge talked w/ each of the boys separately in his chambers.  When judge came back to court, he said that he didn't feel that the boys were attached to one parent over the other, so he was basing his decision on the best interests of their older brother.  

Don't I know that nothing is a guaranteed deciding factor in family court!

Since you are a mediator, would you suggest that DH just talk openly with the boys about how they feel about the living situation.  I am 100% sure that the BM does talk to the boys about why they live with her.  Not sure that she's being honest with them about the reasons, but I know she talks to them.

I just don't want the boys to feel pulled.  But, on the other hand, if they don't know it's an option to come live with us, I don't think they'll speak up.

[MixedBag]

If you don't want the kids to feel pulled, comments about the fact that they have a choice need to be made in a very lighthearted way that doesn't say anything negative about their current home.

The message will stick in the back of their minds because when you send it, the subject will NOT be "who do you want to live with?" which might cause them to shut down.

Has nothing to do with mediation really, and everything to do with being a good parent and wanting whats best for the kids.

Divorce changes some rules in dealing with the kids.  Keep that in mind.

[escape2paradise]

>If you don't want the kids to feel pulled, comments about the
>fact that they have a choice need to be made in a very
>lighthearted way that doesn't say anything negative about
>their current home.

I don't see that they have a "choice"  Minors wishes in Oregon are given consideration, but the kids don't decide.  I think that a huge can of worms is gonna be opened if the kids are asked and led to believe they have a choice.  Getting their hopes up on a maybe is not in their "best interests"  Maybe the poster should see if the older son moving out constitutes a change in circumstances that would even allow a motion to modify the existing order.  I would imagine at best that is a long shot.

[step_momma_to_2boys]

 We sincerely don't want to cause turmoil in the boys' minds!  Things have been really nice between everyone, and I for the first time really feel like BM has grown up and does put the kids' best interests first (I can't say all the time, because part of me is still skeptical and cynical, but I'm trying!) On the other hand, the older son has been very clingy to dad when we see them.  He takes any moment to be with him.  It makes me think that he really needs his dad at this point in his life.  I really feel that the reason he hasn't come straight out and said, "I want to live with Dad" is because he knows his dad will fight tooth and nail for what he believes his kids want.  He doesn't want to see his parents fight, and we are so over fighting anyway!
 Another thing I've thought about for the first time is the possibility that the boys might want to live with different parents.  I say this because the younger boy has told me he is looking forward to his oldest brother leaving so he can spend more time with his mom.  He's told me that she's been so busy with his brother's sports and whatnot, that he's felt "left out."  He's said some other things too that makes me think he wishes he could have the chance to live with his mom by himself.  I really think he needs the extra attention from his mom, because of things he's said.  However, other times, he's said he wishes he could live with us one school year and then at his mom's one school year, and back and forth.  We've told him that might be difficult to adjust to different schools, and then he reminds me that he's a "Pro at adjusting to new schools."
  I guess my main point is that if the oldest boy is allowed to choose, but the younger two are not giving the same consideration, what message is that sending to them?  They need to feel validated and know that we all care about their feelings and what they think is best for themselves.

[MixedBag]

I'm not familiar with Oregon.....

But I can say that even in states where the child's voice is only part of the equation, as they get older, their voice becomes a bigger and bigger part of the equation.

I believe this step parent said that the younger ones don't even know that there are other options.

And even as a CP, I let my girls know that there were options (go live with NCP), and that in our state that it would only be part of the equation.

[escape2paradise]

I understand what you are saying.  Children need to feel heard and they need to have their opinions valued.  However,  children don't know what is best for them.  What they want and what is right can be two very different things.  Nobody in life gets what they want all the time, that is just a fact of life.

I also understand that children may need some extra one on one time.  That doesn't mean that they shoud me separated from their siblings growing up.  Sharing parents with siblings is just part of normal family life.  Kids need to learn to cope dealing with other people etc... and the family is one of the most important places to learn this.  Catering to selfishness just teaches kids to be more selfish.  

I think it is sad to separate siblings.  I was lucky enough to grow up in an in tact home.  I have a sister who is 1.5 yrs younger and a brother who is 13 yrs younger.  I am close with my sister.  Though I love my brother, it is like we grew up in separate homes as I left when he was so young.  Sadly, we don't have the same kind of relationship as my sister and I do.  We don't share the same memories or family experiences.

[MixedBag]

Well, I saw that separating EX#3's children and taking them into our home one at a time did wonders for OSD.  Had EX#3 said "all or none" she would have been a completely different person from who she is today.  And considering she's happy, as opposed to sad and confused when she was with her mother, EX#3 made the right choice.

Heck, my brother and I are only 4 years apart and we have different memories of our "intact" family with our parents.  

[escape2paradise]

If there are major issues I can see the separating.  I don't see that with OP's description.  She even praises the BM for getting her act together and everything seems to be going fine.  Why rock the boat if they have the kids best interests in mind.  Custody battles are ugly and the kids get the brunt of the BS.  

IMO family is the most important thing.  Fostering sibling relationships that are unconditional is very important, separating the kids does not encourage a close bond.