I can't see my girls because I am going to marry my ex-sister in law.

[escape2paradise]

If his statements are true then I agree, however, how does he know the kids are being brainwashed.  Is he just assuming because they are mad at him. They may just be mad and need time to come to grips with what's happened in their family.  I think all these people need some counseling!

[Jade]

>It sounds to  me like the mother and her family in this
>situation are taking THEIR hurt and anger out by using the
>children as pawns.  
>
>It is an unfortunate thing that happened but the kids should
>not be used in this way.  The mother needs to put the kids
>first and encourage a relationship between the children and
>their father.  
>
>If the father is going to marry the aunt then that is just the
>way it is going to be.  Nobody can change what they did but is
>it fair to keep the children away for the rest of their lives
>because the mother is still hurt and angry?


Who said anything about keeping the kids away from the father?  

The other woman should be kept away from them at this time.  

If they do marry (and they already have a lot going against them), obviously, the other woman will be around them.  But right now, he is married to their mother, not the other woman.

The judges said that the father can see the kids, just not with the other woman there.

[Davy]

>I agree that the adults shouldn't be discussing it with the kids in the >detail that they may be.

Poster said "brainwashing repeately" not "discussing"

>As for removing the children from these people, if that is the case, I >don't think the father should get them at this time.

Had children been with the father from the beginning there would not be any protection order violations or criminal charges when the other parent arrives to pick up the children.  Children belong with a parent not the government or a non-parent.  The mother provides the children with a dysfunctional  environment.


>What he and the aunt did is not outweighed by what the other family >members are doing. It is equal to what they are doing.

The father and former brother-in-laws stbx are legally seperated and discreetly dating.  They are not having "swinging from the chanderler sex" in front of the kids nor did I see admitting to adultry by either.  What the mother and family is doing sucks the very life from the kids with long lasting effects.

>I feel sorry for those kids. Because nobody is putting them first.

The father posted here for encouragement and support with a focus on finding help for the children.  The mother and family .. well see all of the above.

I posted with suggestions (restraint/removal) that could/would result in a positive impact on the children without disparaging remarks toward either parent.  

Could you please do the same to maintain one of the primary reasons this board exists.

[Jade]

>>I agree that the adults shouldn't be discussing it with the
>kids in the >detail that they may be.
>
>Poster said "brainwashing repeately" not "discussing"


My father accused my mother of "brainwashing" us kids.  Yet, he was the only one doing any badmouthing.  My mother refrained from talking about the divorce.  

You will have to excuse me if I am skeptical.  The father could be lying.  Or assuming.


>
>>As for removing the children from these people, if that is
>the case, I >don't think the father should get them at this
>time.
>
>Had children been with the father from the beginning there
>would not be any protection order violations or criminal
>charges when the other parent arrives to pick up the children.
> Children belong with a parent not the government or a
>non-parent.  The mother provides the children with a
>dysfunctional  environment.

If what the poster is saying is true, then BOTH parents provide a dysfunctional environment.  


>
>
>>What he and the aunt did is not outweighed by what the other
>family >members are doing. It is equal to what they are doing.
>
>
>The father and former brother-in-laws stbx are legally
>seperated and discreetly dating.  They are not having
>"swinging from the chanderler sex" in front of the kids nor
>did I see admitting to adultry by either.  What the mother and
>family is doing sucks the very life from the kids with long
>lasting effects.

What the father did sucks the very life from the kids with long lasting effects.  

The fact is that he left his wife for her sister.  You can defend that all you want, but he did hurt the kids by his actions.  

And, no, the mother isn't doing any better IF what he is saying is true.



>
>>I feel sorry for those kids. Because nobody is putting them
>first.
>
>The father posted here for encouragement and support with a
>focus on finding help for the children.  The mother and family
>.. well see all of the above.

Again, you only have his word for it.  It could be that the kids are old enough to understand that dad left them for aunt so and so.  And are very pissed about it.  The mother may not be saying anything at all to the kids about what the father and her sister did.


>
>I posted with suggestions (restraint/removal) that could/would
>result in a positive impact on the children without
>disparaging remarks toward either parent.  
>
>Could you please do the same to maintain one of the primary
>reasons this board exists.

And I posted that I don't think the father should have them, either.  If what he is saying is true, neither parent is putting the kids first.

[jpl3700]

I am not dating my wifes sister.  I am dating my wifes brother's ex-wife.  My children have expressed to me that the uncle  my wifes brother calls me very bad things and tells my children I do not love them.  My ex-mother in law tells my children your daddy does not love you. My ex-wife tells the children daddy does not love you anymore.  I have been brought to court for threats against my ex-brother in laws life.  I would not waste my life threatening anyone.  Life is short we are here for a brief visit.   All I want is to be happy.  I tried to make my marriage work.  I spent 22 years of my life with the same woman.  I posted here for help not to be judged.  God will judge me in his time.  I am not perfect, but I have finally found my best friend and love of my life.  My ex-brother in laws relationship with his wife is and was over; as was mine before we started our friendship.  I will see my children because, I have been to court since my original post and the judge stated that "who I date or who my ex-wife dates is our own business and not the courts".  The children have been and are still in therapy.     Some people go an entire lifetime married to someone they do't even like anymore just for the children.  I will not live my life without love.  I will love my children until the day I die.  Post opinions, I have no problem but, if you live in a glass house please do not throw stones at me.  PS. my childrens mother is a Great mom and always will be. I'm just not in love with her.

[mistoffolees]

Please take the comments here with a huge grain of salt. There are people here who have axes to grind and there's nothing you can say which will make the happy. On the other side, there are people who post here with sob stories and it comes out over the next few days that they're leaving out half the story (or more). If you take much of what's written here too seriously, you're going to get hurt.

I'm inclined to agree with the judge. Who you date is not the court's business. While I agree with limitations like no overnight guests when there are children in the house, I don't think it's the court's job to tell you who you can or can not date. I also agree that there's nothing partciuarly heinous about dating your ex-brother in law's ex-wife. If all the adults involved had acted with maturity and respect for the kids, I don't think most kids are going to be hurt by that situation.

The problem is that you're now in a no-win situation. You've got people all over the place alienating you from your kids (taking your statements at face value) and you are also facing fabricated charges of making threats. Your first focus needs to be ending the war. I know you may never have a great relationship with everyone involved, but there IS a chance to settle things down from WWIII levels to 'civil when we need to be' or even better. Given the acrimony involved, you will probably want to keep your new gf away until the dust settles. Not because it's right nor because you should have to, but simply because it's the practical thing to do right now to help settle things down. Later you can worry about how you're going to re-introduce her to the family.

It's unfortunate that you appear to be trying to be reasonable "Great mom and always will be. I'm just not in love with her". Unfortunately, there are people for whom that's not a possibility. I feel the same way about my ex some times. I can work with her all the time, but she regularly retreats into the 'attack and destroy' mode and I'm left trying to pick up the pieces.

Good luck.

[krazyfamily_6]

The OP has stated that it was the ex brother in law's ex wife, not the wife's sister.

He also states that the kids have been in counseling.  If what the poster is saying is true, it's the mother who is telling the kids that their father does not love them anymore and the rest of her family is not saying much better things to them.  Which is why I stated that the mother is trying to push her anger and hurt onto the kids and that is NOT right.  

The OP also states that both relationships were over before he started the friendship with this woman.  

I also agree that WHO the OP dates is really none of the courts business unless she is a sexual predator, child molester.........you get the idea.  

The OP even says that the kid's mother is a great mom........doesn't sound like he is the one doing the bashing here.

It is also not our place to judge this man and his choices.

[wendl]

Unfortunately there are some people here who are not opened minded.

Sounds like their is some PAS going on w/ the family telling the kids these thing that you do not love them.  You need to re-enforce to them how much you love them etc.

I am glad the judge acted as he did, many judges probably wouldn't.

Keep fighting for your kids and to be happy.  

Best wishes to you

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**