Looking for information on ignorance of visitations

[havoc519]

I would like information from anyone who can give it, to my problem.  1st, I don't know what all the abbreviations stand for so bear with my full typing.  I have primary physical custody of my 7 yr old.  The father has not attempted to visit or call in over 2 mths., could be 3 mths.  In my state (PA), there is a 6 mth rule or law?  After that the father has forfeited his parental rights.  MY DILEMMA - why do I have to wait 6 mths?  My son keeps asking where his daddy is?  I have told him that his daddy was mad at me (I'll post the whole story at the end) and just needed time to cool down.  Weeks passed and he asked again, I don't feel it is right to lie and I was tired of covering for his father, so I told him about the hearing (in a way he would understand) and the decision and that daddy was angry that he didn't get his way.  I told him that it was unfair for daddy to take it out on him and that I was sorry but I didn't make decisions for daddy and didn't know what to do.  (the 1st 2 weeks I did call his father with no return calls).  At this point I do not want his father to be able to just "pop" in when he feels like it.  He is not the type of person to call me and see if it would be ok.  He would just tell me he is excerising his parental right.  Part of our custody order has that he may pick our son up at school on Tuesdays.  My guess is that when he feels like coming around again, he will do it on that day so to avoid a confrontation with me.  His parents and brother keep calling for visitations and I have to turn them away.  I have explained to them that are able to see my son when he is on visitations with his father and is not my fault that he is not exercising that.  Their response, of course, is that it isn't their fault either and they shouldn't be punished.  I understand this however, my son has an anxiety disorder in which a counselor comes to my home to see him.  This whole issue has been extremely taxing on him.  He used to be in an extracurricular activity which his fathers parents started to show up at main events without notice.  This would get my son all worked up, "why can they come and not daddy", "where is daddy", "why doesn't daddy come get me anymore" etc. and he would refuse to participate or come home and fight with me or his younger brother, or just cry.  When the grandparents and uncle call, I explained this to them, (supposedly they didn't already know), and yet they called again, thinking of themselves and how they miss their grandson and not how it affects him.  Thankfully I have been the one to answer the phone and not him so he is unaware of the calls.  In having to wait the 6 mths. out, I cannot prevent his father from showing up at school at any time, let alone his stated day.  (In my state or county either parent may pick the child up at school at any time, unless a court order prevents them)  Also, his father has in the past attempted to TAKE my son and not bring him back because he was angry at me.  My lawyer has told me to wait out the 6 mths. so as to not cause his father to come back.  (It really is in my sons best interest in the long term to not see his daddy again)  Since this has all started my husbands (I'v been married for over 4 yrs and have another son with my husband) employer has gone bankrupt and his job is no longer secure.  In planning our future we decided we needed to get out of debt before this would happen.  To do that we need to sell our house and move.  We are looking to stay in the same county but in a cheaper school district.  DO I HAVE TO TELL MY SON'S FATHER WE ARE MOVING?  CAN HE PREVENT THE MOVE? Even though he has not been around?

The whole story in short.  I found out that my son's father was physically assualting his girlfriend in the presence of my son.  This was the topper of alot of other BS I have ignored.  I sought a lawyer for an ammendment to my custody order.  I won.  The order was changed to visitation only at his fathers parents house, participation in my son's counseling (he ignores that there is a problem which could be bi-polar disorder), and he was supposed to appeal so we could bring up drug abuse and to receive anger management before visitation would be considered to go back to normal. (the case was initially handeled by a conciliator and then it can be appealed to a judge if either party doesn't agree this is what we were counting on, bringing up the drug abuse would have tipped him off and would have gotten clean before the court date.)  WILL I NOW BE ABLE TO GET SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF I WANTED SINCE HIS ABSENCE?

All opinions are welcomed I am open minded to an extent.

[wendl]

Well hun I am the custodial mother, my son is almost 14 now.  My ex has gone two year without seeing or talking to his son (at this time we lived  4 miles apart) BUT he was always allowed to go to his dads parents house, it is important for children to know their family members.  My ex has supervised visitation that must be supervised by his mother or sister at their home.

It is NOT right to discuss the custody case with your child. When my son used to ask I simply stated" I am sorry son but I cannot control what your dad does, each person has a different way of showing their love and some people just are scared or don't know how"  For the past 13 year my son usually only sees his dad once a year, for a period he would come in and out of our childs life, my son in elementary school (about age 7) at a really good class for kids of seperated or divorced parents and it helped him greatly as he realised he wasn't the only one going thru this.

RE: Your move.  In most court orders you must file an intent to relocate the child(ren) the other parent has the option to object then the judge decides (if you are not moving far, I highly doubt the judge would not grant the move).

Many times when a parent is absent from the childrens lives they will be a re-unification period so the parent/child can become familar with eachother again.

Usually I court will NOT reliquish a parents rights UNLESS their is a stepparent adoption that both the natural parents agree on.



**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Ref]

It reads like a "what not to do" book. Damn. Telling the kid about court, denying any family because it is not "Dad's" time. Ugh.. No wonder this kid is having mental problems. I would too with all of this completely undigestable information shoved down my throat.

I am completely depressed now. This poor kid is being isolated and will have a hard life ahead, assuming this isn't a joke.

I just can NOT see why she would even think that she has ANY reason to keep this child from having his dad in his life. Obvoiusly she is keeping BF's family out of the child's life simply because she feels the power she now has. It just looks like she wants 100% control and that is impossible with even the slight chance of dad straightening himself out.

Poor kid.

Ref

[havoc519]

No this is not a joke and the reason I denied his father's family visitation, is because if his father chooses to no longer be a part of his son's life then my husband is going to adopt.  When you adopt a child from foster care, their other family isn't still allowed to have contact, so why should this be any different?  This is his father's decision not mine.  

Did you read the part that his dad is abusing his girlfriend in front of my son, and doing drugs (which the court conciliator noticed, he came to court high), and is in complete denial that his son has a mental issue.  I am not keeping my son in isolation, he has a huge support network with my family, my husbands family, and the couselors.  Dad didn't even come to any of my son's extra curricular activities.  He only wants to see my son when it is convenient for him.  I feel bad for his dad's parents but they have never been this interested before and it was their son's choice to step out.  Not my choice for him to step out.  I have tried everything to keep him involved in everything and went the extra mile.  

His visitations were weekly.  We had joint custody and then one day he just doesn't show up because the courts told him he cannot smack his girlfriend around, and that he had to provide his son with a bedroom (he has been sharing a bedroom with his dad and the girlfriend, while her teenage daughter with a baby have their own room, and her 20 yr old son has his own room.)  In addition, they are always breaking up, and he is moving home to his parents.  But when the courts say to only have visitations at his parent, he steps out???  They (son and father) are there alot anyway.

Up until this point, any decisions I made that had to do with our son, I consulted with him first.  My husband and myself make sure that there is never anything negative said about my son's father or extended family, so that he would hear.  I have always been the one who was "walked on" by the his father, and I always left it go for my son's sake.  When enough was enough, he stepped out.  He was the controling one and when he could no longer control he hides.

As for telling him about court, I explained to him that mommy's and daddy's have rules to follow just like kids.  And when daddy hits his girlfriend he is breaking the rules and a judge is like our parents who punish us for being naughty.  (I cleared this with his counselors 1st)  And the judge said that daddy needs to take a time out and should only be able to visit with him at his grandparents house.  And besides, he has a bedroom at their house.  I was sure to make it not his dad's fault, as to protect his father from any resentment.  After a couple of weeks of no dad and questions kept flooding (again I first checked with his counselor) I had to tell him that I didn't know where daddy was or why he wasn't coming.  

But I thank you for your opinion, it helps in any decision making to come.  No decisions are going to be made until Aug.  Dad has until then to show up or call or something.  And then adjustments can be made.  I am torn as to what relationship should remain with the extended family if dad decides he wants no more contact?  This is a hard decision to make.  First because how do I know they won't try to keep the contact with dad going?  And because they do not take any consideration of how their actions and such affect my son.  He needs a strict structure in his life and no one in that family seems to get it.  His father was told by the counselor, the psychologist, and the psychiatrist how important this was and they all chose to ignore.  My parents, my in-laws, my sisters, and any other extended family of mine have all had to make these adjustments.  But they all realized the importance of this for my son's sake.  The conciliator even told him he was neglecting his duty as a father to help his child become a productive member of society and all he could do was argue with her.

[havoc519]

THANK YOU, for your input.  It is greatly appreciated.  Didn't your child have "issues" with dad being in and out?  That is what I was going to try to prevent.  My son's counselor said that would be detrimental to my son's mental state.  I am torn.  I don't want my son to forever be in a depressed because dad is not around and he is left wondering.  But I also don't want the same thing to happen because his dad is in and out.  All opinions are being taken into consideration.  I wanted input from someone who doesn't have an invested interest in my son. (like my friends or family or his fathers friends or family)

[wysiwyg]

here is my opinion.

When my husband adopted my kids 4 YEARS after no contact with their dad, the home interview was conducted and the questions asked - if BF called one day to see the kids would you let him"  I said yes most definately.  You need to ask your self the same question, given that your son is curious would you prevent that from happening?

I think you need another therapist - the court, the GAL, the custody evaluators (2) told us that NO WAY do you discuss the legality of the situation with the children.  They will adapt, they will understand and pick up the situation as they grow.  Your telling your son about court is called Parental Alienation, along wiht the control you have over your son preventing him form seeing his father and his paretnal grandparents.  

So I go back to  my original theory, why CAN'T dad and grandparents see the child?  Get a new therapist, one that will work on promoting a heatlthy relationship with his father and his paternal grandparents, and to help you understnad that the child can have many people that love and care for him and how you ALL can deal with it and promote a healthy environment for the child.

I hope I did not come on too strong, but you can never get enough love from so many people and to deny that child this love - I think that is criminal.  

[wendl]

Yes, my son still struggles, I look at it this way---How would my son feel if his father let my dh adopt him, worse than if he wasn't around.

Some parents do not know or show their love in different ways than others so. I talk to my child, give him hugs etc, his dad is (in my opinion) cold and stern with our son.  But it doesn't mean he doesn't care or love our child, he just doesn't know how.

My dh has been in my sons life since he was 8, he is a good role model for my son, my son sees how my dh treats his boys.  My son gets frustrated at times, but he still loves his dad so much even if he dad doesn't make any attempt to be a part of his life, he is still my sons dad and always will be and that is what is important to my son.  My son does not use his last name (he has my maiden name) he chooses to use my dh's last name.  DH and I discussed adoption BUT we both feel my son has a dad and no matter what I may think of him, it is still his dad.  I will not make the choice to have my son adopted by my dh.  When my son turns 18 he can make that decision.  Really all it is, is a piece of paper, that cannot take the place of a father, my son considers my dh is dad, but a piece of paper didn't determine that, my son did.

Think long and hard about this, your child is still young.  

Just love your child and let him lead you on this  you will be suprise. AND PLEASE do not discuss any court stuff with him.  It will bite you in the ass.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[wendl]

Very well said :)


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[dipper]

havoc,

My daughters are 13 and 9..they were 3 and 6 weeks when their father left me.  He has been very flighty with his visitation.  Over the past two years, he has chosen to see them very litttle.  A few visits last year -probably no more than 4.  

My girls are fine.  This is a lifestyle to them.  what I mean is, I do believe that children want each parent in their lives, but they get used to the other parent not being a constant if we dont emphasize that loss to them.  

It broke my heart - I have cried many tears as I want my ex to be a constant figure in their lives.  

Now, my ex's brother was always distant and hasnt seen our children in 8 years probably.  The grandparents are welcome anytime.  I have even taken the girls over to visit with them..and I have let the girls stay with just their grandparents.  

I would let them see the girls much more if they just asked and made an effort.  However, they seem to think that these children should be calling constantly and I should be doing all the driving.  I dont agree.

I would sincerely reconsider allowing your son to have a relationship with his grandparents and uncle.  

[Nesto]

Well said wysiwyg.  Havoc, some of the things you are doing could give your ex excellent fodder for a case in court of you creating PAS.   You also use language that makes me think you're projecting your own issues onto your son.  

Your ex sounds like a troubled man and probably not a good influence on your son.  I have no doubt you're doing all this to protect your child, but you're using classic tactics of parents alienating their kids from the ex: isolate from ex's family, claim kids have problems made worse by ex's family, explaining MUCH more than is necessary about why dad won't see him, hoping to move and not inform the father.  It's as if you read Divorce Poison and are implementing an alienation plan.

You're rationalizing to yourself (I hope not to your son) that cutting the ex's family out of the picture is the ex's choice!  Sorry hon, that's YOUR choice and it's a bad one.  They are making an effort to stay in contact with their grandson and YOU are the one thwarting it.

Hey, go for it to change the custody picture, have supervised visitations, etc.  But you need to clean up your own act too.  You're laying the groundwork to alienate your son completely from his dad, his grandparents, uncles, etc..  Now his dad might do that all on his own, but you will do your son a great disservice if you're a party to it.  Just suppose (and I know it's a great leap for you) that dear dad straightens up his act, becomes more responsible, and wants to welcome his son back into his life in a few years.   YOU will bear a great responsibility if your son refuses this.  It will be YOU who erased your sons grandparents and uncles from his life.

Try these links from another forum:
http://www.bonusfamilies.com/modules.php?name=BonusExpertsWarshak&func=show&articleid=140&articlepage=1

http://www.bonusfamilies.com/modules.php?name=ExEtiquetteExtras&func=show&articleid=71&articlepage=1

http://www.bonusfamilies.com/modules.php?name=ExEtiquetteExtras&func=show&articleid=66&articlepage=1