Can NCP parent move to another state? long...sorry

[Mair114]

I have found information on custodial parents moving, but not non-custodial parents who wish to move out of state.

I live in NJ and have been separated since July 2006.  Divorce is progressing.  I have 2 children ages 2 & 5.  My soon to be ex, moved in July and entered into another relationship with a woman and has been with her ever since.  We went to court pro se and I filed for child support.  That comes out of his check, no issues there.  We also agreed to joint legal custody by consent, and I am the primary physical custodian.  We had a visitation plan aready of every other weekend, friday evening to sunday evening.  He moved 5 mins. away so if ever I got stuck at work or he had a business trip, we were able to easily accommodate day care pick ups, etc.  I knew about the new girlfriend and we had agreed since he's barely been with her a year, not to introduce her to the kids yet.  3 weeks ago he asked if he could take the kids to a local amusement park with his girlfriend and her 2 children ages 8 and 11.  I finally consented, even though I never met the girlfriend.  

My custody and support papers from our court date in Sept 2006 indicated that "visitation was not an issue at this time".  We were merely asked by the court officer and both told him that we had a parenting plan worked out already.  Nothing was ever given to the court in writing regarding the visitation schedule, although my ex and I had a copy we worked out.  We even managed to add to the original visitation with him taking the kids alternate weekends that began on thursday evenings with him picking them up from daycare and taking them to daycare on friday and then having them on his normal weekends.  On his off weeks, he picks the children up each thursday for dinner.

My ex has threatened me in the past with not taking the children for his weekends in an attempt to block ME from going out and having a social life.  He is often late in pick ups and drop offs.  

He informed me last week by email that he is moving out of his apartment 30 miles away at the end of april to NY to live with his girlfriend.  I did remind him that he had to let the family court know as well as probation because in NJ, support is handled by the probation division.  He said to me "I don't have to do anything because I don't have custody".  Duh...his papers show joint legal custody by consent.

So, I am realistic...I obviously can't do anything about him moving or having a girlfriend.  BUT, the current visitation schedule is going to have to change.  The thursday overnights would have to stop because the commute to take the children from NY to NJ where their daycare is located is over an hour in rush hour traffic.  He has to be in work by 8:30 and the daycare is 40 miles from his job in NJ.  He'd have to be on the road by 6:30 am with them to make it to work on time...they would have to get up at 5:30 am at least!  The children currently get up at 7 and get to school by 8.  I think it is ridiculous to have the children commute an hour to daycare when I live 5 mins from their daycare.  I asked him to reconsider the visitation schedule.  Further, I have some very specific questions about the accommodations my children will have in this new house.  I know nothing about the girlfriend, she is very nasty to me and tells me I am delusional because I want all the specifics on where my children will sleep, play etc.  Excuse me?  She could live in crackhouse for all I know.  Why shouldn't I be able to know what my children will be exposed to.  I have asked to meet the girlfriend but they both refuse.

In addition, we had originally agreed to one phone call with my ex and the children each evening.  Over the last several weeks since my daughter met the new girlfriend my daughter becomes very distraught after speaking to my ex.  She cries for hours afterwards and asks when her daddy is coming home.  I have tried to explain this in terms a 5 year old would understand that her mommy and daddy love her very much but sometimes mommy's and daddy's cant live together anymore but that we still love her very much and she can both of us and it's okay.  My ex filled her head will illusions of gradeur over the summer and kept telling her daddy would be back home someday.

I told my ex that I did not think nightly calls were a good idea anymore and we should consider cutting them to 1 or 2 a week.  Of course he freaked out.  I also told him I think we need to acclimate the children slowly when he moves instead just bringing them there and saying "okay, this is where daddy lives now and here's my new girlfriend".  They have met her ONCE!!!!!!

I have never denied him any visitation, but have told him if he does not inform the courts and probation of his move out of state, visitation is going to be an issue unless we can discuss it.  He wants no change to the schedule and I am not comfortable sending my children somewhere that I have no clue what they will be exposed to.

Am I crazy and asking for too much here?  Don't I have the right to know what kind of accommodations my children will have?  My children have undergone a significant change with their dad moving out.  He now wants a second significant change which will upset their lives and routines by shacking up with a new woman.

Pls, someone talk me off the ledge here.

[Ref]

First of all, he can move where ever he wants. Second of all, 30 miles is not that bad. I used to make a 40 mile commute to work every day. (And yes, it was through a major city)

At this point you have to ask yourself if this is going to harm your children OR if it will just be less convenient. In my opinion, it  seems like it will just be less convenient. I think it is better for the kids to have the extra time with the non-custodial parent and have a bit of a drive, than it is to lose out on that time. Shoot. I remember the 4 hour drive to my dad's when I was little being a great time for me and my Pops to get to bond.

It seems by your actions and your language that you feel that you should have more control over your STBX and your children than control STBX should have over you and the kids. I am not trying to be critical, but you have to change your mindset if you want to avoid some serious confrontations. He has every right to parent the kids in his own way when he is with them as you do when you are with them.
How would you react if he were to tell you that you need to parent differently? My money is that you would get defensive and probably bite his head off, as you should. He feels that the commute to daycare is ok. This is his parenting decision.

I say that you act as though you should have control because you seem to think that he needs your approval for introducing his girlfriend. "I finally consented". It really wasn't up to you to consent. It is his choice AND I think he was very good for holding back for almost a year.It isn't like he is bringing home hoochies every night to show the kids.

You also "informed" him of his duty to the court. It is not up to you to do that. If he gets in trouble,and chances are it wont make one bit of difference to the court, that is not your problem of concern. I understand you might ahve been doing this out of the goodness of your heart, but it probably came accross to him as a threat or at least like you were trying to control him.

You questioning of the place that the new girlfriend lives could also be taken as you trying to control the whole situation. It all depends on your wording. The way you wrote on this board looks like you feel a string sense of entitlement. I can see where he thinks that you see yourself as the parent that should control everything, even in his life. I am not saying that you are, but I could see him getting that feeling and getting defensive. Did you have a simple chat with him asking where he is moving to or was it a fight from the start? If it was a fight, then you shoudl have left it for now, until you can have a pleasent chat. How did you ask about meeting the GF? Did you invite them to dinner, or did you demand to meet her or not produce the kids? It is all in the tone.

Also, things are changing for your kids. Conversations will be tough between them and the NCP. They will be reminded that things have changed. You can't let it worry you so much and you shouldn't limit communication. By not allowing daily contact with the NCP, you are taking him further from the kids causing them to feel even more loss. It is hard. I will tell you, when SD was little she used to cry both when she left her mom's house and when she left ours. It is normal for them to be upset at loss and taking away a parent will only make things worse.

Have you had a real conversation with your STBX about the phone calls. Keep it in a very nonaccusatory tone. Ask him what he thinks is causing her to be upset and try to figure out how to help her get over it.

You really need to let some of this go. You are not in total control You should not be in total control. It seems that he is doing good by the kids and wants to be there for them.

Ask yourself how you would feel being in his shoes? He is limited in seeing his kids. His STBX is trying to limit his time with the kids and phone conversations and she is grilling him about his new home and GF.

Do you REALLY think he would be dating a crack head? Do you REALLY think he would be telling the kids that he is moving back in, when he is introducing them to the new love in his life? Do you REALLY think he would be moving them to a dangerous home? OR do you just want to exert that right you have as a mother to know all of this?

A good question you need to ask yourself is, is he a decent dad. Forget about husband, DAD. Has he made sure to protect the kids in the past? Is he a fairly reasonable individual? You will have to start trusting that he will do his best for the kids and that his best is good enough.

Good luck,
Ref

[mistoffolees]

Just in case a second opinion would be valuable, I read the OP exactly the way Ref did and agree with everything.

The only thing I can add is that you need to work out a visitation plan and get it signed off by the court. These 'we agreed, but never had the court sign it' deals end up causing nothing but heartache for everyone.

[Jade]

>I have found information on custodial parents moving, but not
>non-custodial parents who wish to move out of state.
>
>I live in NJ and have been separated since July 2006.  Divorce
>is progressing.  I have 2 children ages 2 & 5.  My soon to be
>ex, moved in July and entered into another relationship with a
>woman and has been with her ever since.  We went to court pro
>se and I filed for child support.  That comes out of his
>check, no issues there.  We also agreed to joint legal custody
>by consent, and I am the primary physical custodian.  We had a
>visitation plan aready of every other weekend, friday evening
>to sunday evening.  He moved 5 mins. away so if ever I got
>stuck at work or he had a business trip, we were able to
>easily accommodate day care pick ups, etc.  I knew about the
>new girlfriend and we had agreed since he's barely been with
>her a year, not to introduce her to the kids yet.  3 weeks ago
>he asked if he could take the kids to a local amusement park
>with his girlfriend and her 2 children ages 8 and 11.  I
>finally consented, even though I never met the girlfriend.  
>
>My custody and support papers from our court date in Sept 2006
>indicated that "visitation was not an issue at this time".  We
>were merely asked by the court officer and both told him that
>we had a parenting plan worked out already.  Nothing was ever
>given to the court in writing regarding the visitation
>schedule, although my ex and I had a copy we worked out.  We
>even managed to add to the original visitation with him taking
>the kids alternate weekends that began on thursday evenings
>with him picking them up from daycare and taking them to
>daycare on friday and then having them on his normal weekends.
> On his off weeks, he picks the children up each thursday for
>dinner.
>
>My ex has threatened me in the past with not taking the
>children for his weekends in an attempt to block ME from going
>out and having a social life.  He is often late in pick ups
>and drop offs.  
>
>He informed me last week by email that he is moving out of his
>apartment 30 miles away at the end of april to NY to live with
>his girlfriend.  I did remind him that he had to let the
>family court know as well as probation because in NJ, support
>is handled by the probation division.  He said to me "I don't
>have to do anything because I don't have custody".  Duh...his
>papers show joint legal custody by consent.
>
>So, I am realistic...I obviously can't do anything about him
>moving or having a girlfriend.  BUT, the current visitation
>schedule is going to have to change.  The thursday overnights
>would have to stop because the commute to take the children
>from NY to NJ where their daycare is located is over an hour
>in rush hour traffic.  He has to be in work by 8:30 and the
>daycare is 40 miles from his job in NJ.  He'd have to be on
>the road by 6:30 am with them to make it to work on
>time...they would have to get up at 5:30 am at least!  The
>children currently get up at 7 and get to school by 8.  I
>think it is ridiculous to have the children commute an hour to
>daycare when I live 5 mins from their daycare.  I asked him to
>reconsider the visitation schedule.  Further, I have some very
>specific questions about the accommodations my children will
>have in this new house.  I know nothing about the girlfriend,
>she is very nasty to me and tells me I am delusional because I
>want all the specifics on where my children will sleep, play
>etc.  Excuse me?  She could live in crackhouse for all I know.
> Why shouldn't I be able to know what my children will be
>exposed to.  I have asked to meet the girlfriend but they both
>refuse.
>
>In addition, we had originally agreed to one phone call with
>my ex and the children each evening.  Over the last several
>weeks since my daughter met the new girlfriend my daughter
>becomes very distraught after speaking to my ex.  She cries
>for hours afterwards and asks when her daddy is coming home.
>I have tried to explain this in terms a 5 year old would
>understand that her mommy and daddy love her very much but
>sometimes mommy's and daddy's cant live together anymore but
>that we still love her very much and she can both of us and
>it's okay.  My ex filled her head will illusions of gradeur
>over the summer and kept telling her daddy would be back home
>someday.
>
>I told my ex that I did not think nightly calls were a good
>idea anymore and we should consider cutting them to 1 or 2 a
>week.  Of course he freaked out.  I also told him I think we
>need to acclimate the children slowly when he moves instead
>just bringing them there and saying "okay, this is where daddy
>lives now and here's my new girlfriend".  They have met her
>ONCE!!!!!!
>
>I have never denied him any visitation, but have told him if
>he does not inform the courts and probation of his move out of
>state, visitation is going to be an issue unless we can
>discuss it.  He wants no change to the schedule and I am not
>comfortable sending my children somewhere that I have no clue
>what they will be exposed to.
>
>Am I crazy and asking for too much here?  Don't I have the
>right to know what kind of accommodations my children will
>have?  My children have undergone a significant change with
>their dad moving out.  He now wants a second significant
>change which will upset their lives and routines by shacking
>up with a new woman.
>
>Pls, someone talk me off the ledge here.


I agree with the no overnights during the week, that is too disruptive, especially with him moving away.  But he should be able to visit during the week.  As others have pointed out, it isn't that far of a drive.  He can come and pick them up for dinner one night a week and have them home in time for bed.  

You are not going to be able to stop overnight visits (especially since it has already been established).  And at their ages, courts are going to order every other week-end.  

You also will have no say over his girlfriend being there (you can ask for right of first refusal, which means that if he isn't there, he has to ask you to "babysit" before asking anyone else) unless you can prove that she is a danger to them.  And nothing that you have posted indicates that.  

You can ask that he not have her around them while the two of you are still legally married, a judge may or may not grant that.  But after the divorce, you have no say at all.  

I agree with the not calling every night if that is only making them cry.  I don't call my kids when they are with their father.  First, because my 7 year old really doesn't want to come to the phone.  Second, it only makes it worse for my 5 year old.  

On the flip side, his not calling may cause problems as well.  Try it and see what happens.  I also think that if the kids ask to talk to their dad that you should call their dad and let them talk to him.

[krazyfamily_6]

While I can understand you being a bit nervous about your children being in a new environment, I think you are being a bit unrealistic in your expectations here.  You should have an address and phone number to where the children will be staying while they are with their father but I don't think you should limit their time with him just because he is moving.

Have you asked your ex about the living arrangements.....ie. sleeping arrangements and whatnot?  

I am going through a similar experience with my ex right now.  We have been divorced for 5 years now and have 3 children together ages 10, 8 and 5.  My ex is moving out of his mother's house and into an apartment with his girlfriend and her kids.  I am nervous because my ex has never had to parent the kids alone without myself or his mother but I am also confident that things will be ok.  

The only thing I asked my ex for were new phone numbers and an address.  I also asked him what the sleeping arrangements were going to be for the kids because there are 7 kids there EOW and only 2 bedrooms.......