''The List'' by Tom now permanently archived

[SPARC Admin]

''The List'' by Tom is now permanently archived at this location:

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/thelist.htm

Our thanks to 'Tom' for compiling such a great article and for allowing its use here at SPARC.

[kittencaboodle]

My apologies to the admin, but I read "The List" and immediately searched out some way to post a response.  

I realize this may not be the best place to post this, but I have to respond.  

I am 25, a college-educated step-mother to 4 children under the age of 10.  I am married to a man who has, as many of us do, a very bitter ex-wife.  She is not pleased with his re-marriage.  We are preparing for court, and because the child support has drained our resources dry, I am handling all the documents and documentation.  

I am also a "child of divorce".  My mother married my step-father when I was 8.  She had my half-sister when I was 9.  When I was 20, my step-father filed for divorce.  I remember that day well because it was the same day my cat died, the same day I moved back into college for the beginning of my junior year.  It was also about 2 months after my 32 year old aunt died of cancer.  

Why is any of that important?  

I would say the man chose his timing particularly well.  My family was at a weak point.  My step-father followed that list to near exactitude.  We did nothing but suffer at his whims.  He enjoyed his game of cat and mouse.  My mother had been a stay at home parent to myself and my sister for 5 years.  He drained the household account by simply not depositing his pay check for 3 months.  When I got to college, the student job I had lined up to help defer tuition and books became a low paying way to make sure my family was fed.  Why did my step-father do this?  Not for my sister and I, obviously.  He did it because he and my mother co-owned a business.  There was the REAL child he was concerned about.  

I read "The List" and feel alternately sick and horror struck as I relive the anguish of 4 years of court abuse by my step-father.  And what did he gain out of it?  Not family.  Not friends.  Not love.  Not compassion.  A business.  

The reason I am posting this is because my step-father is a prime example of what no parent should turn into.  If you love your children, PUT THEM FIRST.  Think about how your actions are going to affect their lives.  

If you are attempting to follow the list simply to ensure that you don't have to pay child support, I urge you to reconsider.  It was that kind of cold-heartedness that brings me before you today.  I suffer still from the game my step-father played.  If you are attempting to follow the list to stick it to your STBX, PLEASE DON'T.  

If, however, you are attempting to follow the list because your STBX is abusive, cruel, crazy, or otherwise an unfit parent, then I would encourage it.  But please keep your children in your mind and your heart.  Think of their feelings, even if they are older.  As I said, I was 20 when my step-father began pulling his stunts.  My sister was 9.  She's now 16 and hates the very mention of his name, not from anything my mother said or did, but simply because he made it very clear what level of importance she was.  Don't let this happen to you.  Don't lose your family because you want to play "gotcha".  It isn't worth it.  

[Kitty C.]

Very well said.

I've seen this 'List' for some time and watched it grow.  One thing to understand is that part of what drove this to conception was the abusive, vindictive, cruel exes of the men who contributed to it.  Suffice it to say that many of the contributors are extremely bitter (that's an understatement) after what they've been thru, and rightly so.  

The List was written because it goes both ways, BUT going to opposite extremes serves no useful purpose except to cause harm to the children.  As my parents always taught me by example, do everything in moderation.  Many of the things on the list won't even pertain to some or all, so anyone stupid enough to go gung-ho into all of it is doing nothing but cutting his or her own throat.  Bottom line:  take what you need and leave the rest, but as kitten said, at ALL times keep in mind who you are fighting for, the children.

Hey Kit, I bet your SF is one lonely, unhappy guy about now.  Many who resort to those kinds of tactics usually find themselves all alone eventually.  It soaks into their personna and it spills over into almost every aspect of their lives.  The resultant effects are Karma at it's finest....

[Brent]

Good comments. I'm going to ask the admin to add these two paragraphs to the top of the page.


>If you are attempting to follow the list simply to ensure that
>you don't have to pay child support, I urge you to reconsider.
> It was that kind of cold-heartedness that brings me before
>you today.  I suffer still from the game my step-father
>played.  If you are attempting to follow the list to stick it
>to your STBX, PLEASE DON'T.  
>
>If, however, you are attempting to follow the list because
>your STBX is abusive, cruel, crazy, or otherwise an unfit
>parent, then I would encourage it.  But please keep your
>children in your mind and your heart.  Think of their
>feelings, even if they are older.  As I said, I was 20 when my
>step-father began pulling his stunts.  My sister was 9.  She's
>now 16 and hates the very mention of his name, not from
>anything my mother said or did, but simply because he made it
>very clear what level of importance she was.  Don't let this
>happen to you.  Don't lose your family because you want to
>play "gotcha".  It isn't worth it.  
>

[DecentDad]

Hi Kitten,

Thanks for those thoughts and your caveat on "The List."  

While some may use that list for bad faith reasons, there are many of us who typically approach situations with "good faith".  Such a good faith approach in divorce or child custody has been a huge disadvantage, with perhaps lasting damage to families and children.

When one parent wants to play nasty, the other parent is obligated to learn "The List" if only out of doing what's best for the kids, if not for self-preservation.

Sorry about your cat.  Sounds like losing your cat was far more devastating than losing your step-father... quite a statement about his character.

Best,
DD

[MYSONSDAD]

I think 'the list' has many valuable suggestions. Many of us here will benefit greatly. And am very happy they made this an article.

The only objection I personally have, I don't want to be like my ex. I want to set a good example for my son and be someone he can trust and look up to. I guess I was brought up with 'two wrongs don't make a right'

So many positives included in this article, that will help all of us in one way or another...

Kitty had a great thought, take what you need and leave the rest.
 

[tjraid18]

 I've had chances to increase my time with my kids. Maybe I could even be raising them right now. But I made a decision to try to do the right thing by my kids and my ex-wife. Part of me regrets not taking the oppurtunities I had. But another part of me knows it was'nt right. Thats the part I'd like to think my kids would be proud of.

[Peanutsdad]

Yeah, well dont go in sparc chat being a proponent of fighting fire with fire.

sly will jump all over your backside.

[grazer]

What I believe the list is attempting to do is give father's/soon to be divorced father's a insight to what they are going to face. And it doesn't have to be a vindictive soon to be ex wife to trigger many of the things the "List" speaks about. Many father's/soon to be divorced dad's don't have a clue how bias the courts/GAL's and just about the whole domestice judicial system. They don't have a clue what they are in for and don't have a clue how to protect themselves. And this only worsens and becomes even more bias if the soon to be divorced mom is vindictive and has a "shark" for an attorney (I know there are exceptions to this, but reality is that for the vast majority of the time).

Any father that reads the list, needs to understand not to be nieve and trusting. Rather any father that is facing divorce should be totally informed, just like the "List" states. The "List" is very factual and truthful to 'most' divorces for father's (again I know there are exceptions to this).

I got divorced before SPARC was created. I had no real source to obtain information about divorce. Other than what some guys/aquantances would say that had gotten divorced before me. My ex obtained a real shark for an attorney. My ex even went to some seminar that taught women how to win and win big in divorce. I was totally nieve to divorce, I put my whole faith in my attorney (biggest mistake of my life). My attorney I thought was suppose to represent me and battle for my rights to keep the monies/home and custody of my children (or at least fair share there of). After divorce and being totally screwed by ex's attorney, my attorney, the court system and all the rules/regs of the court system that is in place to protect the female in divorce, I discovered from educating myself what I should have known before divorce. And the "List" is a very good summary of what EVERY MAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE!!!

Do I sound bitter? Do I sound vindictive? Maybe so, but just as the "List" states and what I found out the hard way, Divorce is war and you better be prepared for the battle. If you are not prepared for the battle or educated to the way "most" divorces proceed, then you will for sure always be in constant debt (paying C/S), you will loose your home, and you will loose the most important thing/your children. You will not gain custody and you will be granted visitation and be regulated to a mere visitator in your children's lives.

[Peanutsdad]

Grazer,


THOSE are EXACTLY the reasons I decided to fight tooth and nail, to show my ex the same mercy I was shown.


As a result, I DO have custody, I do NOT pay cs and I am only PARTIALLY financially ruined.