Interstate Visitation

[MarieB]

Child's custodial parents are maternal grandparents living in Arizona.

Bio Mom lives in Florida with child.

Bio Dad lives in original state of order - Colorado

Original Order states Grandparent's "have discretion to allow visitation and/or between the child and the Biological parents." This is the most recent and only Court Order regarding custody and parenting time.

Bio Mom states in letter she is the "legal temporary custodian of child" there are no Court Orders to this effect.

BM will not send child for visitation unless BF signs and has noterized a stipulation stating that the BF agrees not to file:

"any papers, documents requests or any other type of filing with the court system including by not limited to request for modification of parental responsibilities, custody, emergency orders of protection"

1. Is it legal for the child's custodial parents (grandparents) to give a letter to Bio Mom stating she is now the custodian?

2.  Is it legal to ask Bio Dad to give up any and all rights to the court system?

Thanks,  MarieB

[socrateaser]

>1. Is it legal for the child's custodial parents
>(grandparents) to give a letter to Bio Mom stating she is now
>the custodian?

BM is about to commit criminal extortion, i.e., causing another person to act or refrain from acting in a manner that the person would otherwise not legally be obligated to do, by means of threat of force or intimidation.

Sign the doc. Get the kid, then file for custody and show the court the bullshit letter that you were forced to accomodate in order to see your child and watch mom get slammed.

[MarieB]

Thank-you for the info I didn't think it was legal but did not know that it was criminal extortion!

I have been wanting custody for a long time now but it is this kind of crap (and more) that has been keeping from my daughter.

The child will only be here for a week so I don't have much chance of getting anything done but a Motion to Modify before she has to go back.

Original Orders are in Colorado.

Child has been living with mom for 5 years. First in Arizona. Now in Florida for the past 1.5 years. Grandparents still live in Arizona.

I am not paying child support right now as Colorado and Arizona Child Support Enforcement refuse to collect on the current order to the grandparents since the child has not been living with them.

I believe that the grandparents are being investigated in Arizona for Child Support and Welfare & TANF fraud as welfare & TANF were being collected on behalf of the child while support was being received. The child support recieved was never reported to welfare or TANF.

Colorado State Statue says that any money not paid though the Child Support Registry is considered a gift to the child.

1.  Since grandparents have legal custody and this letter about my not being able to take any court action is from Bio Mom can't the grandparents still legally take her during my visitation?

2. How can I get Colorado to maintain juristiction?

3. Will the courts look on me badly for not paying any child support?

[socrateaser]

>>1.  Since grandparents have legal custody and this letter
>about my not being able to take any court action is from Bio
>Mom can't the grandparents still legally take her during my
>visitation?

Yes, they can, unless you file for a temporary restraining order granting you temporary custody -- but why would they suddenly come demanding the child?

>2. How can I get Colorado to maintain juristiction?

Unless the child wants to live with you permanently, and he/she is mature enough to make his/her wishes known in an informed manner, I seriously doubt that Colorado would maintain jurisdiction, if the mother, in FL wished to assert FL jurisdiction.

>3. Will the courts look on me badly for not paying any child
>support?

Your case appears extremely complicated. You apparently are ordered to pay support, but the CO state collection unit is refusing to collect. This doesn't free you from the duty to pay, but in order to determine whether you are technically in contempt, I'd need to read the exact text of your support order. You may post it here, if you want a clear analysis.

The grandparents may have defrauded AZ DHS, and they may have delegated their guardianship of the child to their daughter, but none of this affects your duty to pay that support. I would guess that if this all cleared up, that the court would order you to pay future support and the arrears and interest accrued to the mother, as she apparently has actually been caring for the child.

I hope you've been saving your pennies, because you are not gonna avoid paying forever. Eventually the mother will figure out that there is a whole heap o dough to be had and go to an attorney who will take the case on contingency (I would), and try to get the money from you.

The fact that CO law treats payments outside of their collection unit as gifts doesn't help you. You should have been either saving the money that you owe in a trust account for the child, so that you could pay the bill when and if you are ordered, or you should have filed to modify support so that the money could go directly to the mother, instead of the grandparents.

I can understand how this is all very confusing, and depending upon the length of time that the mother delays in requesting a support mod, you could possibly avoid some of the support under a limitations statute or the equitable theory of Laches (not latches), which basically means that if you are unfairly prejudiced by the other party's unreasonable delay in advancing her legal interests, then you can be relieved of the duty to pay, to the extent that the prejudice has affected you negatively.

Trouble is, that you don't appear to have offerred any other support to the mother or encouraged her to file for a mod, or filed for a mod yourself, or anything that would suggest that past acts have unfairly prejudiced your position, so regardless of the mother's delay, I don't think you have a case.

In short, on the support issue, you appear to be pretty much screwed. (note: if you own your home and you have equity built up, I strongly suggest that you try to clear up this issue, because the State or the mother will be able to sell that house right out from under you in order to obtain the past due support, and you cannot have a child support obligation discharged in bankruptcy court, there is no way to get rid of it, other than paying in full).

On the custody issue, nothing in your fact pattern suggests that this child wants to live with you, so why are you considering filing for a custody modification? Is there more to the story?

[MarieB]

Child's custodial parents are maternal grandparents living in Arizona.

Bio Mom lives in Florida with child.

Bio Dad lives in original state of order - Colorado


1. They have tried in the past to come get the child after they have granted visitation.

2. The child is only 9 years old. I do not believe that the mother will ever file any modifications anywhere.

3. Support order states:
"All payments for the current child support and child support judgement will be made by both Respondents payable to the Family Support Registry. No credit will be given for payment in any other manner."

I have been saving what I should have been paying in child support. Colorado CSE just stopped collecting in February 2005.

I did offer support to Bio Mom.  
Bio Mom and I agreed that her parents should no longer have custody and her parents no longer want custody.  Bio Mom asked me to draw up an interstate custody agreement.  I did using the format from this site and included a Child Support Order.  She thought everything was fine.

Her parents (legal custodians) now say that they will only relinquish sole legal custody to the Bio Mom. Now Bio Mom will side with her parents if (when) it goes to court.

4. Custody:
Grandparents have legal custody and the child is not living with them.

I wrote:

BM will not send child for visitation unless BF signs and has noterized a stipulation stating that the BF agrees not to file:

"any papers, documents requests or any other type of filing with the court system including by not limited to request for modification of parental responsibilities, custody, emergency orders of protection"

You Wrote:

"BM is about to commit criminal extortion, i.e., causing another person to act or refrain from acting in a manner that the person would otherwise not legally be obligated to do, by means of threat of force or intimidation.

Sign the doc. Get the kid, then file for custody and show the court the bullshit letter that you were forced to accomodate in order to see your child and watch mom get slammed."



One question:

If I file a Modification in Colorado and the Bio Mom does not oppose jurisdiction then can Colorado retain jurisdiction?

[socrateaser]

>One question:
>
>If I file a Modification in Colorado and the Bio Mom does not
>oppose jurisdiction then can Colorado retain jurisdiction?

Yes. But, if mom opposes jurisdiction, the CO court can, and very well may, dismiss with the suggestion that the more proper forum is FL.

Re my comment about the mom getting slammed, what I meant was that the court could find her actions in coercing your acquiesence to not modify the custody orders to violate the "clean hands" doctrine. Under such circumstances the court can use this as rationale to refuse the mother all sorts of things, like contributions for attorney fees and costs of suit.

However, unless you actually report the mother's action to the district attorney, it's unlikely that anyone would actually prosecute her for extortion. Remember, a jury has to find guilt beyond all reasonable doubt, and it's more than likely, that behind closed doors, a jury would find that the mother an idiot, but not necessarily an extortionist.

If you go to court and ask that custody be modified such that the grandparents are no longer involved, then it's still almost certain that the mother will be granted the bulk of the parenting time, although I could see joint legal custody being awarded, especially in view of the mother's unclean hands. But, it would certainly clean up the situation so you don't have to play second fiddle to the grandparents anymore.