Obtaining psychologist records

[awaitingjustice]

I placed before the court recently a request that my son and my ex-wife attend counseling.  The court granted that request.  My son attended one session with the counselor and then the counselor refused to work with me, the father, and I was forced to terminate his services.  

About this time my ex advised me that our son had seen the same counselor approx. 3 years ago, without my consent.

We have joint- legal custody in the state of New Jersey.  In 2 separate motions the court has found my ex in contempt.  And ruled as follows

Plaintiff's(me) application to enforce litigants rights with respect to allowing Plaintiff and Defendant to have an equal say in all of the major decisions concerning the child's health, education and general welfare as per Paragraph 1.1 of the Property Settlement is GRANTED.

The question now revolves around the psychologist that our son saw once this year, court ordered, and for some time a few years back.  I used the forms from the SPARC web site to request medical records from all docs.  All responded, with the exception of the psychologist.  A second request was made.  It has been over 3 weeks since the second request and today I received the following letter: (from the psychologist)

  I just picked up your certified letter on my day off.  I understand you believe your request to be simple and straight forward, but it is not.  First of all, I have spent already one and one half-hours on one phone call to you directly, two phone calls which you did not respond to my messages for information, reading two letters of yours, picking up a letter from the post office, and responding with this letter.  I anticipate record preparations for you will take two additional hours.  At my professional rate of $100/hr I expect a certified check of $350 to complete your request.  Or did you think this would be for free?  Secondly, your son expressed strong concerns in session that neither parent nor step-parents would have access to his clinical record.  Of course, to gain his cooperation and the truth I gave him my word I would not violate his confidentiality.  Therefore, your request would be a violation of my promise to your son and I cannot comply with you at this time.  Certainly, if you can gain his permission in written form I can comply with your request.  Without your son's cooperation I believe you pushing your rights further would suggest you are pushing your own clinical interests, not his.

Sincerely

XXXXXXXXX


The facts are child is 11 years old and was approx 8 or 9 at the initial session, which was without my consent.

The questions are
in New Jersey it is my understanding that the statute 9:2-4.2 provides the following:  Every parent, except as prohibited by federal and State law, shall have access to records and information pertaining to his or her unemancipated child, including, but not limited to, medical, dental, insurance, child care and educational records, whether or not the child resides with the parent, unless that access is found by the court to be not in the best interest of the child or the access is found by the court to be sought for the purpose of causing detriment to the other parent.

Is this accurate and does it pertain to psychologist????

Also, the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs lists, in their Psychologist REG section that
 (p46) A licensee shall prepare and maintian separately for each client a permanent client record

The psychologist has told me that he does not keep written records, is this possible and/or legal?

In this same document, under section 13:42-8.3 Access to Copy of Client Records it states:

For purposes of this section, "authorized representative" means, but is not necessarily limited to, a person designated by the client or the court...If the client is a minor, a parent or guardien who has custody(whether sole or joint) will be deemed to be an authorized representative.

...No later than 30 days from receipt of a request from a client or duly authorized representative, the licensee shall provide a copy of the client record and/or billing record, including reports relating to the client.

Based on this information the question here is DO I have the right, contrary to what the psychologist states in his letter, to request my son's records?  And doesn't he have the obligation to provide them within 30 days of the request?

 Finally it is my understanding that when the counseling is court ordered the right to any confidentiality is lost and the psychologist is responsible to explain this to the client, adult or child, as is the case.  Can you verify this also?


To date all that I have done with your guidance and that of your website and FAQ section has been very successful.  I am making headway in a highly volatile situation.  This psychologist is, I believe, lying and in conspiracy with my ex and perhaps fraudulently billing for hours not worked, etc.  So I want to have my facts straight when I go back at him for these records.  

Needless to say, my ex has not worked with me to find our son a new counselor and we have yet another motion pending to Enforce Litigants Rights- the third in 6 months and on each so far I have been granted each and every item, as I ask for nothing but what I have already been granted, I do not envision this time being any different.

If this doc is not adhering to the law, however, I need to know so I can obtain the needed records and obtain new and proper counseling for our son.

Any help- appreciated- Dad

 

[socrateaser]

I'd say you have rights to a copy of your son's records. You need to send a letter back to the counselor, rebutting, if false, his/her claim that you have used an unreasonable amount of his time for free (1 1/2 hours on the fone is not reasonable, and he can sue you and win in small claims for his time).

As for the records, themselves, the counselor is clearly legally obligated to keep a record, and to produce it to you at your request. However, if he doesn't keep any written notes, then that record may be rather thin, i.e., it will be nothing more than a log of time and dates spent with the child. Nevertheless, by itself, a demand for $350 for a copy of the records is unreasonable, however, a $20 copy fee and $5 for mailing is reasonable.

But, like I said, I don't know if you've overstayed your welcome on the fone -- it wouldn't be the first time that a parent has coopted a therapist's time, so I'm not gonna lean either way on the issue.

What I would suggest, is that you need to try to make friends with this therapist, so if you did burn fone time, offer 1/2 ($175) and ask for the records.

Even if your goal is to eventually upend the counselor as a hostile witness who's bilking you for fees, you'll get closer to that goal by seeming non-threatening than you will if you bare your chest and do the Tarzan thing.

[awaitingjustice]

Then I am left with one more question- on the subject of the fees, the court ordered that all fees be paid by the defendant(my ex).  So should not the fee for time go to her?  Any and all conversations were in direct relation to either our sons counseling or my ex's counseling- as both were court ordered and this person was going to be providing for both, at my ex's request.

Thanks for any guidance

[socrateaser]

>Then I am left with one more question- on the subject of the
>fees, the court ordered that all fees be paid by the
>defendant(my ex).  So should not the fee for time go to her?
>Any and all conversations were in direct relation to either
>our sons counseling or my ex's counseling- as both were court
>ordered and this person was going to be providing for both, at
>my ex's request.
>
>Thanks for any guidance

All fees means all fees for therapy, not all fees to consult with the parents. Unless the other parent was being punished by the court for some prior wrong by ordering the fees to that parent, then if you go back and tell the court that you spent 1.5 hours on the phone with the therapist and you think the other parent should pay because that's what the order seems to indicate, the judge is gonna look at you like you have a third eyeball in the middle of your forehead.

It's not reasonable to expect the other parent to pay unlimited expenses that you personally incur in dealing with the therapist, unless that time was part of the therapy that the court believed was necessary for the child. You apparently weren't "in" the sessions -- you spend signficant time with the therapist outside of the therapy for the child. So, they're reasonably your expenses.

Anyway, that's my read on the issue.

[awaitingjustice]

>All fees means all fees for therapy, not all fees to consult with the
>parents. Unless the other parent was being punished by the court for
 >some prior wrong by ordering the fees to that parent


That is exactly the case here, (sorry- should have known to tell you that).  The court is sanctioning her for estrangement, failure to comply with visitation, and excluding me from major decisions.  The discussion with the therapist was to advise him of what the court ordered and he advised THAT was NOT what the other party had told him and that that would involve more sessions than he had originally thought, so he wanted to get all the issues on the table.  All I did in the conversation was advise him of the court's decision and the issues they wanted addressed.  The time on the fone was only 15 minutes, and I have documentation of that conversation (due to long distance call)

This counseling and payment was a sanction, along with a $1500.00 sanction directly to me for failure to place the child on his flight for visitation.

This is the 8th order of contempt against my ex, on a variety of issues.

I see what you are saying is making sense, but in light of how the court has ruled on this, I wonder if that changes things at all.  

I reread what you said about making friends with the counselor and I have to tell you, that time has probably come and gone.  Clearly he thinks I am a horrible person and has NEVER wanted to work with me, he is counselor to the step father and the mother and just had nothing nice to say to me since day one.  I agreed to his providing counseling, with a bad feeling in my stomach- and now I wonder if I should have listened to my gut.

I appreciate hearing an unbiased 3rd party's take on this- as it helps me refocus and see things from the outside-  THANKS!

[socrateaser]

>>All fees means all fees for therapy, not all fees to consult
>with the
>>parents. Unless the other parent was being punished by the
>court for
> >some prior wrong by ordering the fees to that parent
>
>
>That is exactly the case here, (sorry- should have known to
>tell you that).  The court is sanctioning her for
>estrangement, failure to comply with visitation, and excluding
>me from major decisions.  The discussion with the therapist
>was to advise him of what the court ordered and he advised
>THAT was NOT what the other party had told him and that that
>would involve more sessions than he had originally thought, so
>he wanted to get all the issues on the table.  All I did in
>the conversation was advise him of the court's decision and
>the issues they wanted addressed.  The time on the fone was
>only 15 minutes, and I have documentation of that conversation
>(due to long distance call)
>
>This counseling and payment was a sanction, along with a
>$1500.00 sanction directly to me for failure to place the
>child on his flight for visitation.
>
>This is the 8th order of contempt against my ex, on a variety
>of issues.
>
>I see what you are saying is making sense, but in light of how
>the court has ruled on this, I wonder if that changes things
>at all.  
>
>I reread what you said about making friends with the counselor
>and I have to tell you, that time has probably come and gone.
>Clearly he thinks I am a horrible person and has NEVER wanted
>to work with me, he is counselor to the step father and the
>mother and just had nothing nice to say to me since day one.
>I agreed to his providing counseling, with a bad feeling in my
>stomach- and now I wonder if I should have listened to my
>gut.
>
>I appreciate hearing an unbiased 3rd party's take on this- as
>it helps me refocus and see things from the outside-  THANKS!

The issue isn't that the mother shouldn't be held to pay, it's whether you have unreasonably used the therapist's time or not. You can pay him and then ask for the court to have your ex reimburse you, and thereby avoid the present issue with the therapist.

Realize that if this person wants to mess with you, the records can be really useless when you receive them, because he/she may decide to make them go bye-bye.

You could also hire a new therapist and then have that person contact the first one to get the records. Then you'd be out of the adversairl loop.

I'm concerned that you're about to get nothing for your money, and that it may not be worth asking for the records.

And, you could go back to court and ask for reimbursement in advance, but, I'm not sure whether your benefit will be worth your cost.

[awaitingjustice]

I am seeing what you are saying and I need to think about this a bit.

Half of me is furious that this psychologist is seeing the child without my consent and then withholding info- and then half of me sees what you say and realize he can just turn over whatever he wants to.

I am trying to get another counselor, but the ex refuses to cooperate- thus the new court date- one of 3 contempt charges I am trying to have enforced.

It all seems so ridiculous because all I want is what I was already granted and why I have to FIGHT for what the papers already say i.e. visitation, parenting rights, right to be his dad, etc is just eating me up

And each time I have to hear him speak words that flow directly from his mother to me- it eats me up to know how she uses him.

You have given me good advice to think on and I will go from there- Thank you for your time and for all you do on this site.  It has helped me maintain clear thinking in some veryyyy mucky waters.

[awaitingjustice]

Ok- so for now anyway I am not going to get the records.  I will attempt to have the next counselor get the information needed to properly help our son.

In the meantime the issue now is, my ex is refusing to make calls to choose a psychologist and refusing to take our son to see one, if I am involved in the choice in anyway.

This is a direct violation of not only the court order, but also of the clarification letter sent by the court that stated "the defendant, the CP, would need to call on psychologist, present a list of choices to Plaintiff(me) and together we would need to choose one for our son."

The letter goes on further to say that if I feel the defendant is not following the courts direction then I would need to file another motion with the court.

The question is that I currently have a motion on file with the court, due to be heard DEC 16, and at the time I filed I thought my ex was going to take our son to counseling.  Now that I have learned differently I need to know if it is possible to ADD information to a pending motion

The clerk confused me as she said I could IF the item I was adding was related to the motion filed, but if it was an entirely new issue I would have to file a new motion.

The motion before the court is for Enforcement of Litigants Rights- re the same order of Aug 2005 and the follow up order of Oct 2005 (as my ex has not adhered to any part of the orders), However I did not spell out 'our sons' counseling as an issue, I only addressed my ex's counseling.  The order was for both my son and my ex to attend counseling.

I know I am splitting hairs, but I am tired of having to refight for everything I am granted, solely because she makes up her mind to not do it and just keeps getting away with it.

This was ordered in AUG 2005 and I would like to get it resolved as soon as possible.


This is New Jersey- just fyi.


Also, do you have any idea how many contempt orders often have to be filed before a judge gets ticked and puts in place his own stipulations (you know the box on the form that allows for "Such relief as the court may deem equitable and just")

I am wondering if I am not asking for the right relief(s).

Happy Holidays!  And thanks for all you do!

[socrateaser]

>I need to know if it is possible to ADD information to a pending motion ???

You can add a supplemental affidavit in support of the existing motion, if the issue before the court already includes the issue you wish to now address. If not, then you must file a new motion, and you could simultaneously ask for the court to shorten time for a response, and for the court to hear both motions on the same calendar date and time.

I would need to read the exact words of the existing motion, and see a clear statement of the issue that you wish to add, before I could actually comment on whether there's a way to sneek this into the existing motion. You could just show up in court and ask the judge if you could ask your ex a few questions, one of which is: Why haven't you called a counselor yet? If she answers in a manner that demonstrates a willful disgregard for the court's prior orders, then you could immediately ask for a contempt order from the court.

This isn't easy to pull off, because generally, unless you notify the court well in advance of your intent to take testimony, the judge won't allow it, because it may set the entire day back an hour and mess up everyone else's motion hearings.

>Also, do you have any idea how many contempt orders often have
>to be filed before a judge gets ticked and puts in place his
>own stipulations (you know the box on the form that allows for
>"Such relief as the court may deem equitable and just")

Depends on the judge and the issue and the contempt, etc. It's very difficult to get a parent sanctioned for being a bad actor. You have to remain calm and just keep asserting your rights until the court figures out that the other party is determined to frustrate resolution of the case.

If and when this happens, it will not likely happen a second time -- most people just don't like to sit in a jail cell for the weekend.

Happy Turkey Day.