child support mod in Orange County CA

[mishelle2]

Soc, heres an update

just received notice of motion for hearing on child support mod, I also received I&E's for bm, her income is twice the amount of my fiance's, on the expense form she states she paid attorneys fees, yet the attorney did not sign the Expense form. According to the Calculator you directed me to on Nolotech the mothers child support will decrease by 250 per month. BM lists her expenses unreasonably high putting her in the negative every month.

Questions:

1. Can fiance call DCSS and come to stipulated agreement? as they are the petitioner in this case, since they are so overloaded with cases this could avoid a hearing

2. Can he ask the DCSS what the guideline support will be with the new I&E's

3. Since she lists her expenses almost 2000 above her income, How does this affect child support calcs?

4. any other input?

[socrateaser]

>Questions:
>
>1. Can fiance call DCSS and come to stipulated agreement? as
>they are the petitioner in this case, since they are so
>overloaded with cases this could avoid a hearing

You can move to have her joined as an indispensable party, on grounds that joining her will facilitate the speedy negotiated settlement of the matter and thereby increase judicial efficiency.

>2. Can he ask the DCSS what the guideline support will be with
>the new I&E's

Better to provide them with a sheet with your calculations.

>
>3. Since she lists her expenses almost 2000 above her income,
>How does this affect child support calcs?

Most expenses are only relevant for spousal support, and have no effect on child support. The expenses that impact child support are daycare, transportation costs, health insurance, mandatory wage deductions, like union dues, and Federal Income tax deductions, the big one being mortgage interest. A homeowner, for example, will pay significantly more support than a renter with equal wages, because the homeowner's net disposable income is greater due to the mortgage interest deduction.

This is an artifact of CA law and the way that the cacluations are done. No other State imposes the same sort of tax impact on support calculations.

Expenses might be a factor if the other parent were seeking a deviation from the guidelines, but that requires some pretty fancy footwork -- generally, CA courts don't allow hardship deductions unless it's something pretty serious, like you lost a leg in a hunting accident.

>4. any other input?

DCSS will think that you don't know that the other parent's expenses are mostly irrelevant, so you just smile and tell them that you know, and then list the deductions that matter for support purposes. That will take a lot of wind out of their sails.

You can also say that since the other parent is demonstrating a huge negative cash flow, that you are wondering if she might not be hiding substantial income that would actually bring her into the black. So, if you can't negotiate a reasonable settlement, then you'll be forced to seek much more comprehensive discovery so as to do a forensic accounting of the other parent's income and assets.

This will let DCSS know that you're prepared to really make this difficult and costly.

[mishelle2]

soc,,,

 I took a closer look at bm's I&E's that I received from DCSS, and I figured out that they are from 1 1/2 years ago, when I requested a mod.. but was denied due to no change in circumstance. (strange they are using same I&E's from her now,, and there is a change) Anyways this means that mother did not respond to DCSS's request for new ones, therefore they are going off the ones they have

1. will this give me a better shot at coming to a stipulated agreement with DCSS?

2. How should I address these old I&E"S as she more than likely makes even more by now, and they have current I&E"S for me?

3. Any new imput?

thanks a million..

[socrateaser]

>soc,,,
>
> I took a closer look at bm's I&E's that I received from DCSS,
>and I figured out that they are from 1 1/2 years ago, when I
>requested a mod.. but was denied due to no change in
>circumstance. (strange they are using same I&E's from her
>now,, and there is a change) Anyways this means that mother
>did not respond to DCSS's request for new ones, therefore they
>are going off the ones they have
>
>1. will this give me a better shot at coming to a stipulated
>agreement with DCSS?

Probably not. You're entitled to current documentation updated to no later than 45 days prior to hearing, so demand updated I&Es and do it in writing, so that you can show the judge that you requested updated docs and you didn't receive them.

Something you need to know is that these hearings are extremely summary in nature. You need to have all your documents and a really thorough declaration stating the facts and why support should be $X filed with the court and served on the other party no later than two days prior to hearing. There won't be much testimony permitted, and if your documents are well thought out, the judge will rule directly on them and not even give DCSS much of an opportunity to rebut.

This is what's gonna happen. DCSS attorney will show up at the hearing and hand you a current I&E, and you won't have had time to even look at it, which means that you'll have to ask for a continuance if you can't figure out what's up. If you keep the letter back, so that when they give you the docs at the last second, and then offer it to the court, then you can either keep the docs out or get a continuance.

But, of course, they know you're coming from far away, so you won't want a continuance, and that will put you under pressure to negotiate a settlement (cave in) in the courtroom hallway before the hearing. So, what I would do, is estimate the other parent's likely income now and make it a really high but "reasonable" estimate. And, I'd give DCSS a letter now asking for the curent I&Es, certified mail, so you have proof of when they got it.

Then, when you get to the hearing, you tell the court that DCSS has just dumped the current I&Es on you in the hallway, and that you requested them a long time ago, and that you request that the new docs be either be excluded from evidence as an unfair surprise for which you haven't had an opportunity to prepare, and that the old docs be excluded as not current and therefore not legally relevant, in favor of your "reasonable" estimate, or that in the alternative, that the court permit a continuance, so that you can investigate the accuracy of the I&E, and sanction DCSS to pay for your reasonable expenses for the unnecessary 900 mile trip, because of their abuse of the legal process.

Everyone will poop their pants, because you'll have the judge in a catch-22. He must act in the child's best interests and have the most accurate financial data, but he can't rule against you because you've been mistreated by your opponent who stalled producing the evidence, so he'll either have to give you your continuance and the money for the unnecessary trip, or use your "reasonable" estimate.

That's the best you can do, because the judge isn't gonna let anyone skate off easy, but he will want the accurate numbers.

[mishelle2]

soc,

 notice of motion says hearing is by telephone for me, address on bm's I and E's is not bms current address, however I dont feel it is my responsibility to give them her updated address.

1. Is it possible to come to a stipulated agreement prior to the hearing? (like soon?)

2. If so what do I say in letter, or can I just call them?


3. If not what should letter say when requesting new I & E docs?

4. What happens if bm does not send in updated docs?

[socrateaser]

>soc,
>
> notice of motion says hearing is by telephone for me, address
>on bm's I and E's is not bms current address, however I dont
>feel it is my responsibility to give them her updated address.

By telephone? You must have been born under a lucky start -- that just about happens never. So much for that idea.

>1. Is it possible to come to a stipulated agreement prior to
>the hearing? (like soon?)

I don't read tea leaves.

>
>2. If so what do I say in letter, or can I just call them?

I dunno. You don't have current I&Es. Why do you want to negotiate anything until you have the facts?

>3. If not what should letter say when requesting new I & E
>docs?

Since you are not being greatly inconvenienced by the hearing, I suggest that you just send a letter stating that the I&Es aren't current and that unless you receive new ones immediately, that you will ask for a continuance so that you can obtain further discovery, on grounds that you believe the other parent may be intentionally attempting to hide something concerning her financial condition, because she seems to be making it impossible to accurately assess.

>
>4. What happens if bm does not send in updated docs?

It boils down to how much you care about the timeliness of a new order vs. the accuracy. Eventually, you will get the new order and it will be made retroactive to the date of filing or later, so as to produce the maximum amount of child support during the pendency of the hearing process.

You have the right to accurate docs, and at least the last tax return, updated within 45 days of the hearing. Since it's tax season right now, you could ask for a continuance on grounds that the support order would be more timely if you had access to the latest return.

Or, you could go with whatever you've got.

[mishelle2]

soc,

notice to appear says:  Included in this package is a blank income and expense declaration, If you have not already done so, this form must be completed & filed with the court 10 days prior to hearing. You must attach latest 3 paystubs.

question:

1 I have already done this (2 times as a matter of fact) So I do not have to fill another one out do I?

[socrateaser]

>soc,
>
>notice to appear says:  Included in this package is a blank
>income and expense declaration, If you have not already done
>so, this form must be completed & filed with the court 10 days
>prior to hearing. You must attach latest 3 paystubs.
>
>question:
>
>1 I have already done this (2 times as a matter of fact) So I
>do not have to fill another one out do I?

Your I&E must be current within 45 days prior to hearing. So, count backwards from the hearing date 45 days, and if you've provided an I&E within that time, then you're legal.

As for the 10 day in advance time limit, I've had them handed to me in the hallway immediately before the hearing, so the deadline is basically crapola, unless you want to use it as a means of obtaining a continuance against your opponent in the event that he/she misses the 10 day deadline.

[mishelle2]

ok. soc,... so I did some diggin around.. LOVE the dang internet.. you can find anything on here.

On cp/bm  I&E she claims she pays 100% of "rent" however I found deed to home, under her boyfriends name purchased under VA loan, and all docs are right there online where it states, that the residence is his primary residence not used for rental. Since she has his income listed as she says she has so many bills that he has to pay a portion of them.   I would understand if she said she paid for 1/2 of payment but to say she is paying 100% of entire payment.


We also have a custody case going in FL, and mother continues to say she cannot afford to pay any transportation costs as she doesnt make very much money, however she has not sent in her I&E for that case, I believe that she is intentionally witholding that info as judge will rule in our favor when he sees she makes 25K more than dad.

questions to first paragraph
1. What bearing does this  have on  CS case?
2. Can she get into trouble for lying on expense dec?


question for second paragraph..
3. Can I use I&E's submitted to CA court as evidence of ability to pay, attorneys fees, (as they are high) and 1/2 of transportation, on case in FL?

[jcsct5]

Had to share my husbands experience with this. His ex claimed that she was paying 100% of the household cost while her Boyfriend was living with her and she was asking for CS from my husband.

Anyway Judge decided that he would impute Boyfriends share of the household expenses to BM income, therefore increasing her disposable income. Turned out that then she would owe my DH CS.

I don't remember how the judge decided this but it had something to do with extraordinary difference in living costs, I think.

Hope this helps, it may be something to look into. We are in CA too.