Phone Calls From Father

[Sweetie]

We have joint legal custody but I have phyiscal custody.
No where in our divorce/custody papers does it say anything about phone calls.  Father always gets child for visitiation when he is suppose to, even though he doesn't spend the time with him.
Child is in trouble for the way he was acting on the phone.  Not the first time this has happened!  He is 10.

1. Can I refuse the child from talking on the phone to anybody including his father for a couple of weeks?  He was on the phone with his father or grandmother when the other call came in and starting acting up.
Father usually calls every night!

Thanks

[socrateaser]

>We have joint legal custody but I have phyiscal custody.
>No where in our divorce/custody papers does it say anything
>about phone calls.  Father always gets child for visitiation
>when he is suppose to, even though he doesn't spend the time
>with him.
>Child is in trouble for the way he was acting on the phone.
>Not the first time this has happened!  He is 10.
>
>1. Can I refuse the child from talking on the phone to anybody
>including his father for a couple of weeks?  He was on the
>phone with his father or grandmother when the other call came
>in and starting acting up.
>Father usually calls every night!

If phone calls are not specifically mentioned, then you cannot be held in contempt for not permitted phone calls. However, "reasonable" communication is implied, so cutting the child off without the other parent's consent would eventually become unreasonable.

I suggest, although I know it may be difficult, to talk to the other parent and see if you can't get some consensus about disciplining or encouraging cooperation from the child in some meaningful way. I have no idea what would be the best solution, but I'm fairly certain that cutting the child off from the father is not high on the list.

[Sweetie]

OK, what would you say or a judge say is reasonable?

[socrateaser]

>OK, what would you say or a judge say is reasonable?

Why don't you tell me exactly what your proposed plan of action is first, and then I can analyze it, rather than me creating a plan that seems reasonable, when my plan may not be something you're at all comfortable with.

[Sweetie]

Well as far as talking to the father, I did last night and once again it did not help.  He says he is a kid, he is doing nothing wrong, etc.  True he is a kid but he is 10 and has to learn phone manners and respect for other people. Like I said earlier this is not the first time this has happened.  I work out of my home and I have customers calling and my son will answer when he is on the other line with his father or grandmother and ask who are you and what do you want.   This is VERY RUDE!!   Shows no respect. Also tells them they will have to call back because he is talking to x. Also does this if my friends and family calls.  It's like father and grandmother comes first over everybody else and that's what they are teaching him.   But father wants to make excuses for him.  I'm not!  He's 10 and has to learn to grow up and be respectable to other people!

Father kept asking if I was denying him access to his son.  I told him no because he gets him when he is suppose to for visitation and no where in the papers does it say he has x times to talk to child on the phone.  He said ok and hung up.  Haven't heard anything since then.

What I plan to do.  He is grounded off the phone for 2 weeks.  This includes everybody!  I have talked to him in the past when it's happened, grounded in other ways when it's happened too.  I don't know of anything else to do right now.  Something has to get the point across!  Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.  If I am, please tell me.

Something else so you will know.  In the past 5.5 years, the father and or grandmother would call everyday, 3 or 4 times a day.  This was all week long.  Talked to them about it.  Done no good.  So I blocked their numbers and let them call 3 times a week.  Well the rest of the week, they would use a different phone that I didn't know the number to and call.   And if I didn't answer, the answering machine would be full of messages.  Talked to them again,  told them if they kept on, I would keep the numbers blocked all the time and only talk once a week.  Well grandmother wouldn't listen.  She calls once a week now.  Father calls 2 to 3 times a week now.  Child see's father and grandmother 3 weekends every month.  

[socrateaser]

>Well as far as talking to the father, I did last night and
>once again it did not help.  He says he is a kid, he is doing
>nothing wrong, etc.  True he is a kid but he is 10 and has to
>learn phone manners and respect for other people. Like I said
>earlier this is not the first time this has happened.  I work
>out of my home and I have customers calling and my son will
>answer when he is on the other line with his father or
>grandmother and ask who are you and what do you want.   This
>is VERY RUDE!!   Shows no respect. Also tells them they will
>have to call back because he is talking to x. Also does this
>if my friends and family calls.  It's like father and
>grandmother comes first over everybody else and that's what
>they are teaching him.   But father wants to make excuses for
>him.  I'm not!  He's 10 and has to learn to grow up and be
>respectable to other people!

You should call Dr. Laura -- this isn't a legal problem in my opinion, so take my solution with a grain of salt, because I'm no therapist.

You're setting your kid up for failure, in my opinion, by mixing personal and business calls in circumstances where the child can answer. Get a completely different phone set with a different ring, or use a cell phone for all your business communication, don't give the number out to anyone except for business, so as to make it impossible for the child to answer your business calls.

>Father kept asking if I was denying him access to his son.  I
>told him no because he gets him when he is suppose to for
>visitation and no where in the papers does it say he has x
>times to talk to child on the phone.  He said ok and hung up.
>Haven't heard anything since then.

The phone is being used as a surrogate for control over the relationships. Your ex and family are using it to control you by usurping all of the available time with the child, and you're withholding time to control the other parent.

You need to conduct your business from a phone that is not accessable to the child, and you need to only give that number to customers and vendors. Mixing personal and business on the same phone line, or even on the same phone set, with two lines and or call waiting, may seem cost effective, but it's unprofessional, and in this case, it's creating the opportunity for trouble.

Tell the other parent that if he wants to get the kid his own phone line or cell phone that you'll agree to reimburse him for one half of the cost of monthly service, but not for any long distance or roaming or extra minute charges.

If you're looking for a legal solution, file a motion for clarification and ask the court to order specific hours for phone contact. However, be aware that this will not solve the problem, because the child knows it annoys you, and that's part of the fun. He can get in on the war between mom and dad by answering the phone, and if you change the rules, he'll just find some other way to annoy you.

The solution is to completely separate your business and personal dealings so that there is no commingling, and no possibility of the child or the other parent using the phone as a passive-aggressive tool to control the relationship.

[mishelle2]

just another opinion here,,,, but I think you need to ask yourself these questions.. by grounding him from his father what are you proving? Will this change the childs behavior or make it worse? Will this cause the child to resent you?  Is the childs behavior and lack of proper phone lingo just the fathers responsibility?

from reading your posts it doesnt really sound like the father is encouraging the child to be rude, your son is 10 and in the middle of an important conversation (while it may not be important to you it is obviously to him) Have you tried sitting down with your son and explaining to him that this is also a business line and teach him how to answer the phone, or maybe even ask the dad to provide the child with a cell phone (they have ones from Verizon that only call 4 numbers), I think that denying the father and son phone time will come back to bite you later on.

Just another opinion...

[Sweetie]

No it's not just the father's responsibility.  That's the problem here.  The father says there is nothing wrong with the way our son acts on the phone but it is.  When he's here and answers the phone and says who are you and what do you want..that's RUDE!!  If he wants to answer the phone at his father's like this, so be it.   And no matter which way he is punished, it is NEVER right when it comes  to the father.  Either I'm to hard on him, he's to old, I shouldn't have done it that way, etc.

I have told my son a million times, when ANYBODY calls and it's not for him to ask, can I ask who's calling, can I take a message, etc.  And he knows who's calling...caller id!  Even if he's on the other line, it will tell you who is calling on the second line.

Also have on tape where the father IS telling our son, that when he is on the phone with him or the grandmother and anybody else calls, he is not to answer the other line, if he does answer tell them to call back because he is talking to him and it's more important!  Now what is this teaching our son???

As far as the business calls.  They do not happen everyday.  I'm a child care provider but at times, the parent's are calling to check in on the day, other's are calling checking on openings, etc.

I don't know if grounding is the answer.  I just know I don't get any cooperation from his father.  I have talked and talked and nothing!  What else is there to do????  I want my son to grow up respecting other people and not being rude!  Wheather it's on the phone or in person.

[socrateaser]

>I don't know if grounding is the answer.  I just know I don't
>get any cooperation from his father.  I have talked and talked
>and nothing!  What else is there to do????  I want my son to
>grow up respecting other people and not being rude!  Wheather
>it's on the phone or in person.

OK, listen, this isn't the forum for a discussion of discipline. I realize that this is a big problem for you, but the bottom line is that the only legal avenue is to have your order clarified to specify contact times.

If you don't, then you risk contempt, even though it's highly unlikely that it will occur.

Good luck.

[dealin with it]

It sounds to me that you and the X are both responsible for your kids behavior on the phone. I good way to get your kid to speak properly on the phone is for you, and your X to interact on the phone with your kid. BOth of you should be teaching him phone manners. It's not just the father, and the childs fault here. It everyones fault. I believe that every NCP should have phone time with there child(ren). Here in Michigan the courts encourage phone time. They leave it up to the parents to divise a schedule. The way I see it here, both parents are at fault for your childs phone manners.