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Author Topic: visitation and alienation!!! Help!  (Read 14129 times)

camsdad30

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #10 on: Nov 27, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
Well Gemini
I got a phone call from my ex today at 1:30pm and she told me that my son was sick. I tried to talk to her I was very civil. I told her thanks for letting me know but I can handle him being sick and that I don't mind giving him his meds and that I would be there to pick him up at my scheduled time. She started saying that "I need to think about Camerons best interest and not think about myself." I tod her that she keeps him home every time he sick and I have just equal rights as she does to care for him while he was sick. She got upset and handed the phone to her dad. I tried to tell her dad about my rights to care for Cam and he said to me " to hell with your rights" and told me to take her to court. I shouldn't have even bothered talking to them.  Thats what I was doing talking while they were yelling and screaming. I showed up anyway they didn't answer the door and then I went to the Bolingbrook police station, they logged it in their system, and gave me a peice of paper with the complaint number. Tomorrow I will be sending out the denial of visitation letter via certified mail. Am I going to look like a total jerk going to court over this? I was reading the article on visitation being denied due to illness was that written by an attorney or is it a law that both parents can treat a child when their sick? She keeps saying that if I take her to court that she will say that I'm endangering his health more? Do you think that I may be able to win this alone without an attorney? Is there anything I can do about her dad always interfering legally? Thankyou for your advice and help.
Michael
P.S. Gemini3 just wondering are you an attorney because you give a lot of good advice.


gemini3

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #11 on: Nov 28, 2009, 12:48:44 PM »
I am not an attorney, so please keep in mind that the advice I give on this board is not legal advice.  It is advice based on my own personal experiences, and that of others I know.  I'm glad that you find it helpful. 
 
No, you're not going to look like a total jerk.  You are the child's parent, and part of "parenting" is caring for the child while they are sick.  This is a tactic that is used often by CP's to deny visitation.  This website has an article on the subject here:  http://deltabravo.net/custody/sickvisit.php
 
Does your son have some kind of severe medical condition?  It sounds like she says he's sick a lot.
 
If and when you do go to court over this, you should have a log of the dates and times you were denied visitation because the child was sick.  Your CO clearly states that missed visitation should be made up - so she is in violation of the CO.  She has to allow you to make up the visitation.  How many visits have you missed, and over how long of a period?  Has she ever given you make-up time?
 
Have you checked with the school to see if he really missed school those days?  If not, call and get a copy of his attendance record.  You may find that he's actually in school.
 
As far as whether or not you can win this without an attorney - there is no way to know.  It's a crapshoot even with an attorney.  But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.  Sometimes just knowing that you will take it to court is enough of a deterrant.  AND, even if you don't win the first time, there is a court record of the issue so that the judge will see it if there's a next time.
 
As far as her dad goes, there's nothing you can do about his meddling.  Legally anyway.  I would just hang up if she puts him on the phone.

camsdad30

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #12 on: Nov 28, 2009, 05:30:17 PM »
My son has had a lot of medical conditions throughout the years. He's had a lot of surgerys. The lastest ones have been minor out patient ones for his tubes in his ears. The last one he had was a spinal fusion in 2006. I missed 5 months of visitation but of course something like that I have to understand because he couldn't be moved. When he gets sick it has nothing to do with his medical conditions. I have missed a lot of visitation. Most recent. I missed 2 days in Sept, I missed 3 weekends in a row in October, and now I'm missing this weekend.
 
Back in May I was notified by dcfs that I was being investigated and that I couldn't see my son. It was on his birthday that I was told this. Anyway the false allegations were thrown out (unfounded). My ex wife proceeded to get an order of protection on me AFTER she was told by dcfs that I could see my son. It was dismissed in August. At that point my attorney told me that I should file for a change of custody. Unfortuately I just had no more money. My attorney was almost in tears talking to me. She told me that she could just tell that my son was being coached. I missed 3 months with my son because she wants to falsely accuse me of child abuse for the third time. Sometimes I just want to give up. It hurts me you know. I just want this nightmare to be over. I have even considered giving up my parental rights and saying you know what I can wait til he's 18 if he wants to come find me. Don't know what do anymore

gemini3

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #13 on: Nov 28, 2009, 05:59:58 PM »
I think that many of us on these boards can relate to the feelings your having.  Fighting alienation is draining - emotionally, mentally, and financially.  It's a personal decision - as far as whether or not you should go on fighting.  You should be commended for hanging on as long as you have, and facing what you have.  Dealing with false allegations is especially difficult.  I don't think anyone who has been through this kind of thing would judge you if you decided to stop fighting. 
 
There are things you can do on your own without an attorney.  You don't need one to file a Petition for Rule to Show Cause, or to appear for the hearing.  You can be there with all of the information the judge will need.  If your attorney is open to the idea, she might be able to give you some coaching on what to do and say when you get into court.  It will be a lot less expensive to pay her for an hour or two, file your own paperwork and represent yourself, than to pay her for everything.
 
There are a couple of good books out there dealing with PA and what you can do to combat it.  My recommendations are Divorce Poison and Divorce Casualties.  They have a lot of good information on what you can do to help combat the alienation.
 
You might also consider joining a group for fathers.  The American Coalition for Fathers and Children has two chapters in Illinois.  You can get information on them here:  http://acfc.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=affiliates#Illinois  It can be hard to get support for what you're going through because most people have no idea, and don't understand the challenges of working within the family court system.  It can be embarassing to tell people about the false allegations because you wonder what people will think.  All of the things you're going through are extremely hard - and I think it helps to talk to people who have been there, know what it's like, and won't judge you.

Kitty C.

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #14 on: Nov 28, 2009, 07:18:05 PM »
Camsdad, I have to tell you....I am not one to cry 'The sky is falling!' like Chicken Little, but you said something in your last post that jumped off the radar at me:  'My son has had a lot of medical conditions throughout the years. He's had a lot of surgerys.'
 
I don't mean to pry, but if you could elaborate on that, it might put this in a different perspective.  Because the very first thought that crossed my mind was Munchausen's by proxy.  It is a syndrome/condition where a parent claims a child is sick to feed some warped sense of need in that parent.  Some go to the extent of claiming some outrageous diseases, hospitalizations and surgeries, just to make them look like Parent of the Year.  It could also be used to prevent the other parent from seeing the child.  I recommend you research this and get as much information as possible.  I am NOT saying that this is the case, but because it is something that alerted me and you do need to consider every possibility.  Especially since the atty. stated she was certain the child had been coached.
 
Ever see the movie 'Sixth Sense' with Bruce Willis?  There was a dead girl who's mother poisoned her to the point that she died from it.  But apparently she had realized what her mother was up to and set up a camcorder and caught her mother poisoning her food.  Of course, this is an extreme example made specifically for the movie.
 
I would strongly recommend having the child evaluated by a pediatrician who has never seen him before.  If you can't do this yourself, I would demand that this be court-ordered if it ends up in court. 
 
If your ex has a long history of refusing your time with your child based on sickness alone, I think you should seriously consider this.  Like I said, I am not one to panic and think worst case scenario, but I DO believe in covering ALL the bases...especially when it's difficult to figure out just where all the bases are.
 
The only reason I put this out here is because of the beauty of this site...........many people here with different perspectives and experiences.  As my dad used to say, 'Two (or more) heads are better than one' and sometimes one might find a way to look at a problem differently than you would have thought of.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......


camsdad30

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #15 on: Nov 29, 2009, 05:48:04 PM »
My son has had heart surgery when he was a baby he had something very similar to a heart mur mur called an asd. He hasn't had any problems with that since. He's had tibia reconstruction, bilateral myringotomy placement (tubes in his ears) 8 times,  bladder issues, reconstruction of the skull, tethered cord release, posterterior fushion and anterior release (spine surgery), decompression of the brain, my ex is also is planning on doing cosmetic surgery because his ears stick out a little and she doesn't like it. If you looked at my son you wouldn't know that anything was wrong with him.
It was brought up a long time ago of her having munhausens by proxy by my attorney but it was never pursued.

Kitty C.

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #16 on: Nov 29, 2009, 09:49:33 PM »
Tubes in his ears EIGHT TIMES??  Does he have any hearing left??  There has to be so much scar tissue that if he doesn't have hearing problems now, he will eventually.  And what ENT (otolaryngologist) would willingly do that type of surgery so many time?  Was it the same surgeon each time?  Or was there more than one for the same problem?  If it was the latter, then Munchausen's by Proxy is a definite possibility.  Cosmetic surgery because she doesn't like the way his ears look?  This is downright absurd!
 
Tibia and skull reconstruction, spine surgery, decompression of the brain...........is that from an accident?  If not, is there some genetic deformity that was discovered?  And if your atty. brought up Munchausen's in the past, why wasn't it pursued?  In fact, another big sign is how many practitioners/surgeons/hospitals have been involved in your son's care since birth and how many of those treated your child for similar conditions?  In other words, the ex making sure the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.....
 
I'm sorry........too many questions!  I take it that you do not have joint legal custody, so that she has sole discretion on giving permission for any surgery or treatment.  And I bet she fought for that long and hard.  The Munchausen's flag is whipping in the wind if the answers to all these questions are what I think they are.  If my hunch is correct, you should tell your atty. you are ready to investigate the Munchausen's possibility to the fullest.........or it's posssible your ex will either maim or kill your child in the name of 'modern healthcare'.........
 
The biggest job will be getting copies of all your child's medical records....and you need ALL of them.  If you live in a large metro area, it will be that much more difficult, as there will be so many for her to choose from.  Key areas to watch for are doctor and nursing notes from hospitalizations that describe how 'devoted' the mother appears to the child.  Seeing it once or twice may not be much, but repeatedly is suspicious as well.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

camsdad30

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #17 on: Nov 30, 2009, 07:38:42 AM »
My son from what I have been told barely has any tissue left in his ears and his hearing is awful he needs to wear hearing aids.
 
The decompression of the brain from what I was told was because he has craniosynstosis. I was told that it was a birth defect. I did go through testing to see if it was genetic on my part and it wasn't. Supposably the only thing that came up on her part was klippel feil syndrome. I don't know if any of this has to do with him being about 2 mths premature. When my ex wife went into labor she was in labor for 5 days due to the placenta started like seperating from the wall. The doctors had to use suction and forceps to get him out because he got stuck in her tail bone. According to my ex wife cameron has: Asthma, arnold chiari i malformation, bilateral hydronephrosis, kliipel-feil syndrome, craniosynostosis, hydromyelia, bilateral hearing loss, urine incontience, and spina bifida occulta, within the last 2 years has had a lot of anger and depresssion issues. He is on 3 medicines for depression at age 10.
 
I don't have joint legal custody. My attorney brought up munchausen's when my ex wouldn't produce medical records. After like 2 months of waiting she produced them but that was years ago.

mdegol

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #18 on: Nov 30, 2009, 11:03:02 AM »
Those are very serious illnesses.  Tubes in the ears 8 times sounds excessive (not tubes to drain cerebral fluid?) In any case, you still have the right to parent your child if he has a mild illness which is unrelated.  And with a child that has special needs, maybe you could work something out so that you are more informed about his condition (an opportunity to consult his doctors).  Even without joint legal, you should still have access to his medical records.  If you go back to court, I would have that specified in your CO if it is not there already.  Also, you should have some opportunity to consults doctors at least to understand the conditions, since they are complicated and serious from the sounds of them. Access to medical records doesn't mean a lot if you don't have a consultation to understand them. I am sure she won't cooperate, but if she doesn't have anything to hide she shouldn't have a problem with you directly speaking to the doctors.  If anything, it is in the child's interest, since he is in your care some of the time and it is best that any caregivers fully understand his conditions.  You can also check on her, make sure that she really is acting on the advice of doctors with coordinated care.
 
But I will say, my own hairs raised the same as Kitty with your initial description of the mother's behavior (and even more with his list of illnesses).  I understand that you already tried, but having tubes in ears 8 times makes me wonder seriously.  That doesn't sound right.  Also, I will say, if MY child had so many conditions I would NEVER risk elective surgery.  He must be quite fragile if he has all of that.  Since your attorney brought up Munchausen's in the past it must not be super obvious in the child?  Some of those conditions I thought were associated with physical features that may be distinct.  This must be very tough for you.  Support is the key through all of this. 

camsdad30

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Re: visitation and alienation!!! Help!
« Reply #19 on: Nov 30, 2009, 02:45:53 PM »
I do have rights to all medical except the decision making for surgery's. Thanks I actually am getting ready to send her a letter stating that I want to know before cameron has any kind of doctors appointment. If I choose to be present then that is my choice. The court order states that I have the right to be present for all medical treatment. If she doesn't then thats another thing that she can be found in contempt for. She'll probably go and cry to her dad and then I will probably get a phone call. I'm sending 3 letters total the denial of visitation, the letter to medical, and I was thinking of sending one to her about her family being involved but I wasn't sure if I should I will copy and paste it and I appreciate any feed back please read below and let me know what you think plz. It might sound immature
but I am constanly getting a phone calls from him or she will call my fiance.

My letter
To: Ex
Fr: Dad
Date: November 29, 2009
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Tracy,
You are being informed in writing that all issues regarding Cameron is to be done between me, you, or our attorneys. I refuse to speak with your mother or your father unless it is an absolute emergency. Your father was very disrespectful to me and will not interfere with my visitation or my rights. Your fathers exact words were “to hell with your rights and the court order” I don’t think the court system would agree. You also need to refrain from calling my fiancé .
<o:p></o:p>
Thank You,
<o:p></o:p>
Dad

 

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