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Author Topic: Being denied communication  (Read 10926 times)

NYParent

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Being denied communication
« on: Nov 03, 2009, 09:38:20 AM »
I wanted to get everyone's advise on this issue.  BM is not allowing me to talk to my child (I guess that's punishment for not giving into her demands to do the modification in TX).  I haven't hear from my child in three weeks.  I have sent numerous text messages, I have called, and my attorney wrote a letter asking for access. 

I have decided that I will be sending some sort of communication every other day and asking for a date and time to speak to my child.  Then at the end of the week I will send a letter stating that she did not allow me access to the child and list out all my attempts there.

Do you think this can be construed as harassment?  Her and her attorney like to throw that word around.  Do you think every other day is excessive?


MixedBag

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #1 on: Nov 03, 2009, 12:45:32 PM »
in another thread, you said you have court in early December.
 
right?
 
And that's in NY, right?
 
was trying to find the other thread -- where I think you said TX would not take jurisdiction.
 
Every other day -- harassment -- yea makes you scratch your head.
 
"MY" attorney wrote letter -- your TX attorney?  Or a NY attorney?
 
Keep on trying and be ready to show how often you tried in court in NY in early December.

MomofTwo

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #2 on: Nov 03, 2009, 01:00:09 PM »
If your orders do not give you telephonic communication at specified times, then file a motion to have it - you want specific days/times which your child is available to talk to you on the phone and if the child isn't home, then the call has to be returned within so many hours.  If that is not in your orders, then your attempts mean nothing and neither would your notice.  She can't be held in contempt or viewed as denying your rights per the orders, if it's not in the orders.

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #3 on: Nov 03, 2009, 01:11:04 PM »
MB- The jurisdiction part has not been finalize.  It's still up in the air.  I have court in early Dec. in NY.  Mom has not shown up the last two court dates here  in NY.  My Texas attorney sent her Texas attorney a letter about setting up a more consistent schedule for communication with my child until we get a Court ordered one (he did this without my authorization which is another issue).  Of course my biggest issue is I want to speak to my child, so I am constantly trying. I get the feeling BM will not comply until we go to court again (if she even shows up, she hasn't the last two times).  In the mean time I am documenting and saving everything (I always do, even when there's no problem).

MomofTwo- My order does not have specific days.  It simply said that BM agrees to maintain and open and flexible schedule to allow frequent communication.  I am not trying to get her in contempt, I am going back to court for modification in order to avoid problems like this and get specific date and times.  I just simply want to talk to my child.


 

MixedBag

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #4 on: Nov 03, 2009, 01:33:52 PM »
was there a hearing in TX?  I thought I remembered reading about one.....and that jurisdiction was denied for TX.
 
So is defined times for phone calls part of your motion to the NY court?


NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #5 on: Nov 03, 2009, 02:32:23 PM »
MB- yeah it's complicated.  I had one hearing in TX.  The judge in TX said that NY had continual jurisdiction.  Since a petition was filed in TX, the judge from TX and NY have to speak and decide which state would be a better forum for trial.  NY judge said he was not ready to make a decision as he needed to talk to both parties. 

BM's attorney in TX showed up for the hearing in TX.  BM did NOT come to NY for the two hearings.  The next hearing is in Dec. (the judge here in NY was pissed and said he was ordering for BM to show up to the next one). 

Yes, that is part of my petition here in NY to get specific times for phone calls.  The entire CO needs to be more specific.  Not only will it allow for contempt if not followed, but it will allow for less communication between BM and I so that I can do some low-contact with her.

snowrose

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #6 on: Nov 03, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »
Sounds like you're moving in the right direction with what you want the courts to make changes on.  Not much else you can do there, except maybe travel down to TX to see the child. 
 
Other than that, you could always call the child's local police and ask them to do a wellness check.  That would at least give you a small amount of peace of mind.

Davy

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #7 on: Nov 04, 2009, 08:52:25 AM »
 
"travel down to TX to see the child" 

... and doing so may cause or give credibility to justify TX jurisdiction especially if the father is served with some BS motion or falsely accused / arrested.

Moreover and most importantly, the mother has kidnapped and is exploiting the child first by abscounding with the child to another state and secondly by not complying with any civil proceedure or court order.

Substantially withholding a child's access to their proper parent is moving from a civil arena to a criminal arena.



snowrose

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #8 on: Nov 04, 2009, 12:59:43 PM »


"travel down to TX to see the child" 

... and doing so may cause or give credibility to justify TX jurisdiction especially if the father is served with some BS motion or falsely accused / arrested.
[/B]
 
*sigh* Of course he should consult with his TX lawyer before doing anything in TX - but the courts can't go around selecting a venue for a custody case based on someone visiting a state for a day or two, especially when they may need to do that to see their TX lawyer. 
 
Visiting a state for a few days is NOT establishing residence in that state.

MixedBag

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #9 on: Nov 04, 2009, 01:45:12 PM »
no it doesn't -- BUT this dad is not dealing with a parent who has their head screwed on the right way.
 
You never know what's gonna happen....and I happen to agree with Davy since there's a hearing already scheduled for December.
 

mdegol

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #10 on: Nov 04, 2009, 02:08:23 PM »
Have to agree with Davy.  Interstate child custody is based on child's residence for initial custody jurisdiction (subject matter jurisdiction).  However, child support (or jurisdiction over the father) can be based on the smallest of connections.  Simple as a speeding tickets, renting a car, doing any business in a state whatsoever subjects YOU to their jurisdiction.  Him staying away from Texas is a good idea, since it makes his jurisdiction argument even stronger.  I was in a similiar situation, and even if child never lived in contested state (actually Texas) my lawyer was very happy that child had never even BEEN inside the state for even 30 seconds.   I, on the other hand, had lived in Texas for a short time.  So while the subject matter and child was not in the jurisdiction of Texas, I WAS subject to Texas' jurisdiction.

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #11 on: Nov 04, 2009, 02:53:45 PM »
On my last visit to TX was when I got served with the summons.  When I did the motion to dismiss based on subject and personal matter jurisdiction, the judge informed me that since I rented a car in TX and in turn had conducted business in the state of TX, then they did have personal matter jurisdiction.  I know....doesn't make sense, but that's how it goes.

I was advised by my attorneys that until jurisdiction was settled, to be very careful about traveling to the state of TX; even to visit my child.  They said it was very common to have the other party try their hardest to get your arrested over the most frivolous things to use it as a way to get jurisdiction over the case.  This is the case with BM....she started bring this man to all our drop offs (which I didn't have a problem with) and come to find out he's a police officer dressed in plain clothing.  I was wondering why she was making a big deal about that third person there and screaming that she was afraid that I was going to hit her (when I NEVER have nor would I).....I let her scream all she wants, I didn't even speak to her.  I simply gave my child a kiss and said goodbye.

MrCustodyCoach

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #12 on: Nov 04, 2009, 04:26:53 PM »
Every other day is not excessive.  As an aside, I often strongly urge people not to repeatedly communicate or threaten details regarding future litigation and why.  The only purpose that serves is to give them time to prepare a defense, even if fabricate, for it.

You make a few meaningful efforts to get her to permit appropriate levels of access to the child and record her refusals as well as journaling the details of every attempt made.  When, times, duration, etc.

Then, instead of threatening (and wasting your money on your attorney sending letters and faxes) - you just act.  You address the matter in court, not through repeated emails... THAT can be construed as "controlling and harassing."
Mr. Custody Coach - Win Child Custody "Better Prepared, Better Outcome"

*The opinions in this post are solely my own and do not represent the only way to address any particular issue.

Davy

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #13 on: Nov 05, 2009, 10:26:32 AM »
Snowrose seemingly has everything backwards.
 
Kidnapper left TX  on a Saturday to visit a dying aunt in IL and filed for divorce/custody on Monday in IL venue #1 where the kids had NEVER been before.    The TX children were thriving like always in school and all activities.
 
PI reported kidnapper left venue #1 approx. 2 weeks after filing to parts unknown. 
 
Retained first & 2nd IL attorney by phone....never personally met neither  (IL and TX attorneys forbid my presence in IL for fear of justifying IL jurisdiction).  Hand carried case file to 3rd IL attorney in the dark of the night. Argued jurisdictional issues for 3.5 months (should have taken 5 minutes). Judge stated IL has absolutely no jurisdiction over any parties BUT would not dismiss the case until TX father filed for divorce in TX (how valid is that).
 
Kidnapper filed in IL :
venue # 2 again for custody
venue # 3 to defeat my property rights (no notice)
venue # 4 placing daughter for adoption (notice a formality)
venue # 5 & 6  for custodial interference against father (no notice)
venue # 7 in TX ... took ys from school
 
Father filed in TX by force and IL Federal (PKPA) and ordered kids returned home and IL venues to stop all proceedings.
Note : not taken kindly by TX judge in the Republic.  Federal court did what he refused (return kids) and he immediately sent kids back to IL during 5 minute temporary hearing changing custody from father to kidnapper while NOT allowing evidence of  physical abuse to children.
 
Father left TX (and TX lost jurisdiction) to stop the abuse in IL.   
 
Father prevailed in EVERY venue in both states either with an attorney or pro se  EXCEPT when 12 hour notice given for final judgement after lsing jurisdiction.  The ABUSE STOPPED !!
 
What about the kids .... one thing is that kidnapper kidnapped grandchildren in FL and daughter is paying CS (ys just sent $1000 from OUR business).
 
Happy motoring !!
 
 

gemini3

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #14 on: Nov 05, 2009, 02:01:49 PM »
I agree with MrCustodyCoach.  One additional suggestion would be to send your ex a letter (just one) certified mail.  Outline your request for contact with your child, and suggest a schedule.  For example, M-W-F at 7:45 p.m.  Ask that, if she does not agree with the schedule she suggest an alternate arrangement.  Then, unless you hear back from her, start calling at the times in your letter.  Write your attempts down in your journal.
 
I think that this would be more helpful than calling and e-mailing constantly.  It will show your willingness to work with her, and her unwillingness to do the same.  You will have at least four weeks of attempting to call according to the suggested schedule.  She won't be able to use the excuse that she wasn't there, it wasn't convenient, etc, etc.  Your attorney will just have to ask why she didn't suggest an alternate schedule.

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #15 on: Nov 05, 2009, 04:02:07 PM »
gemini- That's a great suggestion!  Thanks

Davy

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #16 on: Nov 05, 2009, 10:15:41 PM »
IMHO, the advice offered by MrCustodyCoach and Gemini3 is good advice for the future.
 
 

renald38

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #17 on: Nov 06, 2009, 10:39:28 PM »
I just drove home from georgia expecting to have my children with me on my weekend,but instead im attacked in the front yard by my ex wife and husband yelling obsecenities at me while my children stand and watch.I go through this every other weekend and always drive back to sc without my children.Noone will help me and lawyers want 1000s of dollars before they even hear my case.She gets her child support and all that was agreed upon,so why does she have the right to keep my kids from me.She hasnt let me speak to them in two weeks,and when i showed up tonight to pick them up,in which i arrived at 6 pm and they didnt come home til 10pm and ordered my children in the house and not speak to me.And what do the cops say NOTHING<NOTHING AT ALL.Im am sick and tired of the bs and i want to know why my voice wont be heard.

snowrose

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #18 on: Nov 06, 2009, 11:23:22 PM »

Snowrose seemingly has everything backwards.

<snip>

 
No, actually I don't have everything backwards.  I gave the answer I believed was right for NYParent's case, and then I quietly accepted other people's differences of opinion - you should really try that. 
 
OTOH, you just usually talk about yourself.

gemini3

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #19 on: Nov 07, 2009, 09:03:59 AM »

I just drove home from georgia expecting to have my children with me on my weekend,but instead im attacked in the front yard by my ex wife and husband yelling obsecenities at me while my children stand and watch.I go through this every other weekend and always drive back to sc without my children.Noone will help me and lawyers want 1000s of dollars before they even hear my case.She gets her child support and all that was agreed upon,so why does she have the right to keep my kids from me.She hasnt let me speak to them in two weeks,and when i showed up tonight to pick them up,in which i arrived at 6 pm and they didnt come home til 10pm and ordered my children in the house and not speak to me.And what do the cops say NOTHING<NOTHING AT ALL.Im am sick and tired of the bs and i want to know why my voice wont be heard.

 
Renald38, please start a new post with this issue. 

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #20 on: Nov 09, 2009, 12:01:07 PM »
Well I sent out the certified letter with the request.  As sad as this sounds, I have already resigned to the idea that I will not have any contact with my child until the court date.

I wanted to get your opinion on one more issues that I am having problems with....my child's daycare provider.  In the past I have called her once a month to get updates on my child.  She has always been very accommodating to my calls and would always call me back within a day or two.  Of course I have called her now two times (in a matter of 4 weeks) and have not received a call back yet.  I even sent her a letter stating that if it was easier she could send me a letter or an email to give me an update...I have gotten nothing.  I know that BM got to her and stated that she should not contact me.  The daycare provider already has a copy of our CO on file which states we have joint legal custody.  How would/have you guys handled a situation like this? 


Thanks a million!

MixedBag

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #21 on: Nov 09, 2009, 12:24:15 PM »
How would I handle this -- hmmm....
 
call from a different number -- maybe even a blocked number -- so that you can see if she is watching and purposely not answering.
 
After that -- you said you wrote a letter....I'd send a second letter and send it via a traceable method -- priority confirmed delivery maybe.
 
Keep trying and bring this to the judge's attention in December

MrCustodyCoach

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #22 on: Nov 11, 2009, 10:22:59 PM »
Well I sent out the certified letter with the request.  As sad as this sounds, I have already resigned to the idea that I will not have any contact with my child until the court date.

I wanted to get your opinion on one more issues that I am having problems with....my child's daycare provider.  In the past I have called her once a month to get updates on my child.  She has always been very accommodating to my calls and would always call me back within a day or two.  Of course I have called her now two times (in a matter of 4 weeks) and have not received a call back yet.  I even sent her a letter stating that if it was easier she could send me a letter or an email to give me an update...I have gotten nothing.  I know that BM got to her and stated that she should not contact me.  The daycare provider already has a copy of our CO on file which states we have joint legal custody.  How would/have you guys handled a situation like this? 


Thanks a million!

I would pay them a visit, kindly re-introduce myself, and then sit down with the director to go over the custody order again while working on a written and signed plan of communication with him/her/them.
Mr. Custody Coach - Win Child Custody "Better Prepared, Better Outcome"

*The opinions in this post are solely my own and do not represent the only way to address any particular issue.

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #23 on: Nov 12, 2009, 06:48:26 PM »
Well BM called my sister to tell her that my child is not allowed to have communication with me or any of my family members because I did "terrible" things to her (she was referring to herself).  BM then went on to tell my sister that I would only be allowed communication with the child IF the judge gave permission.  When asked what she was referring to, BM said stated that she was under legal advisement not to speak about it.

Here we go....LET THE GAMES BEGIN.....God only knows what the hell she's talking about.  I'd like to know what "terrible" things I did when I live 1400 miles away, that was so bad that I shouldn't be allowed access to my child.  My guess is that she realized that she f*ed up by not coming to NY and who knows what allegations she's going to make to take the focus off her.

I can't wait til my court date.  I just want some of this stuff to be settled already. 

ocean

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #24 on: Nov 12, 2009, 07:28:59 PM »
Have your sister come to court and testify about that phone call. Have her write everything down and the date and time with her phone bill.
ugggg,.....

snowrose

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #25 on: Nov 12, 2009, 09:39:15 PM »

I wanted to get your opinion on one more issues that I am having problems with....my child's daycare provider.  In the past I have called her once a month to get updates on my child.  She has always been very accommodating to my calls and would always call me back within a day or two.  Of course I have called her now two times (in a matter of 4 weeks) and have not received a call back yet.  I even sent her a letter stating that if it was easier she could send me a letter or an email to give me an update...I have gotten nothing.  I know that BM got to her and stated that she should not contact me.  The daycare provider already has a copy of our CO on file which states we have joint legal custody.  How would/have you guys handled a situation like this? 

Thanks a million!

 
I would have an attorney send a letter for you stating that as DD's father and being one of her legal guardians you insist that you be updated on DD's condition whenever you contact them or you will file a lawsuit against the daycare for withholding information from a child's legal guardian.

Davy

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #26 on: Nov 13, 2009, 01:58:38 AM »
NYParent .... It appears matters are escalating as expected.  As you know, the mother is creating more turmoil for you to respond to in hopes that NY will decline jurisdiction claiming TX now appears to be the more appropriate forum to determine your child's future.

Any DV accusations will assist the cause to gain TX jurisdiction and, of course, the same with any legal action sought against a TX entity.

I would expect your NY attorney is guiding  your efforts.  At very least,  You may want to reconsider your TX attorney filing for special exclusive appearance for jurisdictional matters only.  You may know that an attorney as your representative  can (and will) cut a deal or make arrangements and/or resolve issues without your consent.

You might want to focus on finalizing jurisdiction, getting your TX attorney to formally only appear on jurisdiction matters, and perhaps subpeona the day care worker for disposition in NY at their expense (I bet you get your answers then) while building up for your NY custody determination.  Not neccessarily in that order.

Irregardless of jurisdiction, you may know there are many children with loving, nuturing and great responsible fathers they have not seen for years if ever.  Don't become one of them.

NYParent

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #27 on: Nov 13, 2009, 08:47:14 AM »
Yes, my sister wrote down time and date and a summary of the phone conversation with BM and is willing to testify.

I get the feeling that she's doing this in an effort to piss me off and have me act out in anger.  Well she's wasting her time.  I even stop sending communication.  I followed Gemini's advise and sent a certified letter with suggested times for communication and asked her that if that didn't work she should suggest alternate times ASAP.  I am attempting my communication on the specified times.  When leaving a voice mail I clearly state my name, date and time and that I was calling to speak to DD.

My attorney said that the judge is going to see through her attempts.  The fact that the judge is pissed at her, is working against her right now.  Every attorney I've spoken to about the matter have stated that BM is doing the worst possible thing....withholding my child.

As far as DV, there's never been ANY.  The only thing that worries me is that from reading post here it seems like TRO are easily given to women who make such claims.  Although I get the feeling that the judge would see that for what it is....a desperate attempt. 


Davy-  I already followed your advise with my attorney in TX and had him file for jurisdictional purposes only.

I get the feeling that jurisdiction will be finalized in our next hearing.  I will NEVER give up on my DD....NEVER.  I have seen what happens to children who grow up without a dad....plus, I can't imagine not having DD in my life.

mdegol

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Re: Being denied communication
« Reply #28 on: Nov 13, 2009, 09:49:20 AM »
She is doing the worst possible things.  Give them enough rope and they hang themselves.  The sad thing is, while all of this is going on, you aren't seeing your child.  *sigh*  At least the hearing is soon.  When jurisdiction was decided for me in Texas, I did appear in the hearing, which did not hurt my case since personal jurisdiction was moot.  Since personal jurisdiction is already moot for you also, are you planning to go to the special appearance hearing?  I only ask because you should try to see child if you have to be there anyway.  She is KILLING herself if she doesn't let you see your child, but it will be her choice since the judge won't be able to order it.    Our situation was opposite, since I am CP and NCP was trying to file in Texas.  Judge asked us to bring child for hearing so that father could see him as long as we were going to be there anyway (how this happened was a little complicated).  After the hearing he said that he couldn't order visitation since he didn't have jurisdiction.  Of course we brought child and father visited with him for the time we were in Texas. Same will be true for you.  Judge in Texas won't be able to order it, but she will look HORRIBLE if she doesn't let you see your child.  Also anytime we had court in my state I always allow visitation while he is here.   I would be handing my head on a plate otherwise.
 
I will say, she probably isn't showing up to court for the same jurisdictional issues reasons.  Lawyers prob told her not to show up, since that is the usual advice.  She is just on the wrong side of it, since NY has jurisdiction and she is ticking off the judge.  Although maybe she is just thumbing her nose at the court based on her other behavoir LOL.  Just, in my case the other side in Texas kept saying that about me, since I didn't show up for the first couple of hearing (I didn't know about one, and then wasn't served in time for the next and although I knew about it, I could not go).  I hadn't been served and it would have subjected me to the jurisdiction of Texas to just show up at it.  We had to file the special appearance before any appearance in court.  And the judge was ticked off at me the same way.  But I won entirely because of the way I did it (as you certainly have found out).  The lawyer called it "strategy" but it was extremely scary since the judge was making negative comments about me not being there.  But once the special appearance was filed, it was in my favor to appear, since it showed respect for the court. He was still not happy until he heard all the facts and had an attitude with me at the first special appearance hearing (the second hearing he had read all of the evidence, and he actually yelled at the father at one point).
 
As far as daycare, they just don't want to do the wrong thing and get sued I think.  That's why they are quiet.  If you had a good relationship up to this point, I would wait it out.  They aren't lawyers and these court actions scare the heck out of them.  You are within your rights to force them to give you info, but I wouldn't want my child in the care of people that are also being subjected to legal threats.  They should be professional, but I just won't take any risks.  Thats just what I would do.

 

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