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Author Topic: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion  (Read 15019 times)

Heston

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #20 on: Aug 08, 2011, 01:34:42 AM »


Thanks for the comments.  I was reading up on PAS yesterday on the paawareness.org site and it said PAS was the syndrome the child suffers from and PA is what the parents do, ie alienate the child.  I guess then it should be OK to leave it as it is and if the lawyer tries anything, just explain that the parents are constantly alienating the child against me...


I believe using this will help a lot for getting a GAL appointed for your child.

It means your child has legal representation where his best interests are the only thing that matter to that attorney.   Something your ex can't control.


Thanks.  There are even more problems.  I have so much evidence of contempt of the CO that the BM is desperately creating false evidence.  She has a relationship that is far too friendly with the counseller who is totally on her side.  My child now tells me her mom tells her to lie to the counseller to say she doesn't like me and that I am mean.  The mom does that already.  She has already built up a case with that very gullible counselor.  I already reported here that after filing the hideous untruthful motion the mom showed up an hour and a half late having got the cops to accompany her and showed them a bag of vomit claiming my child vomitted because she was forced to see me.  That means fake evidence and looks like she tried to bring the child but I was not home.  A perfect excuse.  No matter that I emailed her (as per the CO - she has a cell that she views emails on) asking if she was bringing my daughter and asking if she was delayed.... and that I had waited one and a half hours before leaving my home to take my other child to an apt, assuming my child was not being brought for drop off because the BMs MO is to ignore my attempts to find out if she is on her way, etc when she fails to bring her.

Now she brought my child with cops once more.  This time she told them lies, such as she is afraid I will kill the child because her father is "evil".  The cops came into my house to investigate.  My child told me afterwards that her mom told her to tell the cop that her dad was "mean".  My child then opened up to tell me the other lies her mom is telling her to say.   

I am up against a totally biased counselor who believes the BM and child totally, therefore she will be convincing in court.  The other counselor is associated with the first one.  My daughter is not likely to tell her she has been told to lie and that counselor does not want to become involved in court related issues.  I cannot afford to take my child to another new and expensive counselor at this moment in time but if she doesn't tell a counselor about the lies, the consequences are unthinkable....also my daughter may not open up to a new one.  She tells me because she trusts me.  But I have to get evidence that she is told to lie to counter what the BM is doing, i.e. trying to get me removed from my child's life.  Also, I have only two weeks to provide my evidence to the BMs attorney.

With each visitation, cops are being employed in a frenzied attempt by the BM to create evidence.  Knowing how the family courts work, this "evidence" will be taken on board, after all it is a counselor and cops... and a BM who is BPD and excels at lying convincingly.

The BM is behaving ever more frenzied.  She has escaped accountability all her life and I can now see she has probably used these "warfare" tactics in various scenarios over the years to escape scrutiny.  This is what she is doing now.  The BM knows she has been in contempt of the CO.  There is proof of that.  The BM is therefore making me out to be a monster, both to the counseler, (meant to counsel the child but whom the BM sees for her own counselling) and now to local police in my area.  She is forcing my child to lie to the police and lying herself.  First it was the motion alleging I told my child her mom would murder her.  Now it's a report to the cops that she is afraid the father (I) will kill her.   

It has become a non-stop attack on all levels.  Lies in emails.  Lies to cops and counselors.  The BM wants me out of my daughter's life.  The stepfather is an overpowering influence on that score too.  Courts only take notice of proof.  The BM's fake proof will be listened to.  How do I obtain sufficient proof of this relentless alienation?  Bear in mind the other attorney needs the evidence in two weeks!  And if I ask my daughter to see another counselor, if its even possible to get one, whatever she says or does, she will be interrogated when she returns home and the BM will know exactly what is going on.  Therefore, I cannot talk freely to my child or tell her why she needs to speak to someone else about what is going on.  She needs to tell someone else what she has told me, but cannot be told why.  It makes it pretty near impossible to get her to trust another person to tell them.  It's like entrapment and there appears to be no way out...if I am not able to overcome what is going on now, I will lose my child.  My other child is greatly affected by what's going on too.

This situation has become quite desperate and I would really appreciate some advice on how to handle things.


Simplydad

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #21 on: Aug 08, 2011, 06:56:35 AM »

Thanks.  There are even more problems.  I have so much evidence of contempt of the CO that the BM is desperately creating false evidence.  She has a relationship that is far too friendly with the counseller who is totally on her side.  My child now tells me her mom tells her to lie to the counseller to say she doesn't like me and that I am mean.  The mom does that already.  She has already built up a case with that very gullible counselor.  I already reported here that after filing the hideous untruthful motion the mom showed up an hour and a half late having got the cops to accompany her and showed them a bag of vomit claiming my child vomitted because she was forced to see me.  That means fake evidence and looks like she tried to bring the child but I was not home.  A perfect excuse.  No matter that I emailed her (as per the CO - she has a cell that she views emails on) asking if she was bringing my daughter and asking if she was delayed.... and that I had waited one and a half hours before leaving my home to take my other child to an apt, assuming my child was not being brought for drop off because the BMs MO is to ignore my attempts to find out if she is on her way, etc when she fails to bring her.

Ok....first let's take a deep breath and calm down some.  I understand the stress level you are going through.  You getting worked up about it will hurt you.  What is happening here is a someone is trying to get a reaction out of you and get you so stressed that you will make a mistake.
 
Family court judges have seen all that your ex is trying and then some.  They will not be fooled by any of this. The counselor is not even an issue becasue she is not even a licenses professional.  All you have to do is object to her credentials and then ask that a GAL be appointed for your child and request court appointed counseling with a counselor that must be aggred upon by both parties and if not one that is appointed by the court with the GAL's recommendation. 
 
All evidence must be factual for starters.  Also, your wife's side is not allowed any suprises. Send a certified letter to her attorney requestion discovery and that they submit to you copies of all that will be presented in court.
 
Concerning the vomit.....No judge will admit it or even consider it and before the accompanying officer can even testify they must be subpoenad and I am not sure who would be willing to take time off for this.  Even then the officer will have to testify that he actually saw the child vomit but it is hignly unlikely that he can testify as to why. He is not a licenses counselor nor is he a medical professional.


Now she brought my child with cops once more.  This time she told them lies, such as she is afraid I will kill the child because her father is "evil".  The cops came into my house to investigate.  My child told me afterwards that her mom told her to tell the cop that her dad was "mean".  My child then opened up to tell me the other lies her mom is telling her to say. 

It will not matter that she showed up with the cops.  Judge will pretty much say......so what.
 
Also, your ex has been held in contempt before and you have evidence with proof of that contempt.   


I am up against a totally biased counselor who believes the BM and child totally, therefore she will be convincing in court.  The other counselor is associated with the first one.  My daughter is not likely to tell her she has been told to lie and that counselor does not want to become involved in court related issues.  I cannot afford to take my child to another new and expensive counselor at this moment in time but if she doesn't tell a counselor about the lies, the consequences are unthinkable....also my daughter may not open up to a new one.  She tells me because she trusts me.  But I have to get evidence that she is told to lie to counter what the BM is doing, i.e. trying to get me removed from my child's life.  Also, I have only two weeks to provide my evidence to the BMs attorney.

Counselors are always biased....at least in my experience.  Once they build a rapport with someone they will seemingly always take their side.  Licensed professionals are able to separate personal and professional feelings when it comes to legal proceedings.  Keep in mind that you are not obligated to just take what her conselor is saying.  Based on parent alienation you can request that your child see a counselor of your choosing.  You have that right.  Just becuase your ex has chosen a counselor does not meant you do not have the right to get a professional to rebutt her testimony and I can assure you a licenses counselor will carry a whole lot more weight in court.

With each visitation, cops are being employed in a frenzied attempt by the BM to create evidence.  Knowing how the family courts work, this "evidence" will be taken on board, after all it is a counselor and cops... and a BM who is BPD and excels at lying convincingly.

Again, this is not going to matter.  In many divorces because parents disagree law enforcement are calle to ensure a peaceful exchange of the children.  The only thing that is happening here is the cops are present during your exchange.  Unless you are arrested and charges are filed the fact they were there is pretty much inadmissable.


The BM is behaving ever more frenzied.  She has escaped accountability all her life and I can now see she has probably used these "warfare" tactics in various scenarios over the years to escape scrutiny.  This is what she is doing now.  The BM knows she has been in contempt of the CO.  There is proof of that.  The BM is therefore making me out to be a monster, both to the counseler, (meant to counsel the child but whom the BM sees for her own counselling) and now to local police in my area.  She is forcing my child to lie to the police and lying herself.  First it was the motion alleging I told my child her mom would murder her.  Now it's a report to the cops that she is afraid the father (I) will kill her.

Yet no investigation was launched.  Police reports are not evidence.   


It has become a non-stop attack on all levels.  Lies in emails.  Lies to cops and counselors.  The BM wants me out of my daughter's life.  The stepfather is an overpowering influence on that score too.  Courts only take notice of proof.  The BM's fake proof will be listened to.  How do I obtain sufficient proof of this relentless alienation?  Bear in mind the other attorney needs the evidence in two weeks!  And if I ask my daughter to see another counselor, if its even possible to get one, whatever she says or does, she will be interrogated when she returns home and the BM will know exactly what is going on.  Therefore, I cannot talk freely to my child or tell her why she needs to speak to someone else about what is going on.  She needs to tell someone else what she has told me, but cannot be told why.  It makes it pretty near impossible to get her to trust another person to tell them.  It's like entrapment and there appears to be no way out...if I am not able to overcome what is going on now, I will lose my child.  My other child is greatly affected by what's going on too.

There is absolutely nothing that they can do to take you out of your childs life. Absolutely nothing unless you have comitted some really heinous acts and I do not see that as the case.
 
To put it in further context....you child can actually say in court that she does not want to see you and that still will not be enough. The child does not get to make the choice. Your rights as a father cannot be usurped unless you have commited crimes that will show you as a danger to the child 

ocean

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #22 on: Aug 08, 2011, 07:16:28 AM »
The first order of business is to get a GAL assigned to the case at the next hearing. This person will interview you, you with child, child alone, and child with mom.

The rest, document and file. Your whole case is the PAS so this fits into more of your evidence. When you finally get a new order, you can request the exchanges done differently so she does not use the police as a tool.

Your child feels open enough to talk to you about what her mother is doing and that is great! Just keep your parenting time the same and regular, if things come up in conversation then just let it flow. Just tell her that she needs to tell the truth in life with everything, that is how you keep a job for money, how you keep good friends, and to be a good person. Then move on to something else...Tell her the judge and adults will figure it all out and not to worry too much about it.

Court gets very ugly. There is also a good chance that child is going home and telling her things that she wants to hear so it is easier living with mom. Then mom takes what she says and really spins it out of control.

Did police write a report of this last incident? Maybe you can get that officer into court to show how nutty she was about leaving child with you, and that the child did go with you and was fine.

Breathe...this is not the end...

Simplydad

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #23 on: Aug 08, 2011, 07:51:23 AM »
I agree with Ocean.....The GAL is top priority. Once you get a GAL there will be a lot of stress lifted off of you.
 
The GAL is a court appointed lawyer who represents the child alone.  They do not represent your agenda nor the ex's agenda. Their only job is to protect the interest of the child.  This is in the best interest of the child and once appointed I think a lot of your legal stress and anxiety will be released.

Kitty C.

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #24 on: Aug 08, 2011, 03:51:25 PM »
Big question.....since law enforcement has been involved, have they arrested you?  No.  Have they warned you that you are under investigation and charges could be filed?  Apparently not.  That is HUGE.....because it means that they don't believe BM anymore than you do.  Get the police reports and make sure you have all the names of the officers involved....your atty. needs to depose them to see what their impression is of the whole situation.  If it appears that they are just going through the motions because the BM called the cops and really don't believe her, then you want them saying so on the stand. 
 
Keep in mind that her atty. can depose them, as well...so depending on what they say in deposition, her atty. may determine that the cops aren't good witnesses for their case.  Trust me, if LE believed only half of what BM is telling them, you'd been in jail a LONG time ago.  I think in this situation, the cops could be a huge ally.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......


Heston

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #25 on: Aug 10, 2011, 10:44:54 AM »
Thanks Simplydad, Ocean and Kitty, for all the comments and suggestions.  I will be contacting the police officers and getting their names.  If I can get a lawyer I will get depositions from them too.  I agree that they could be very helpful witnesses.  It's correct that there are no charges and I have done absolutely nothing wrong.  The police always see me as a reasonable person, which I am and they have never seemed interested in investigating.  They most probably see people like the BM every day, making up lies.  One of the most worrying things here is that the BM is getting the child to lie to the police and the counselor.  She has been told to say I hit her.  If ever she gets a graze or a scraped knee, she is told to tell the counselor I caused it.  My child has admitted this.  Even worse is the fact my child says she will continue to do it.  She is compliant (a) to avoid punishment and (b) to get some praise.  If it were just the BM lying that would be one thing, but with the child saying what she is told to say, I am not sure of the best way to handle it.  I also fear that if an AD LITEM is appointed, that even though the AL is only concerned with the child's rights, that in this case, the child would be told to lie to the AL.  In fact, I am certain that would happen.  Basically, it's impossible to stop the child lying and saying what she is told to say.  There is no way to stop that.  I've told her it's important to be truthful, and so on.  But the bm has created a severe dependency to control the child, and the child is programmed in a way not too dissimilar from brainwashing.  So, although an Ad Litem would be great in normal circumstances, I believe the BM could get her way even more easily if an Ad Litem were appointed.

It is helpful to know that the judge won't take too much notice of police escorts and the BMs fictitious reports.  The BM is determined to get her way, and she is upping her game by getting the child to lie.  I don't see how a judge can ignore a counselor, even if not properly qualified, who states the child confides in her that she is treated mean and hit.   

All the BM has to do here is get visitation changed.  I know the courts won't take away joint custody at the next hearing.  But if visitation is changed to being supervised, the BM will achieve her goals.  I am not too sure how to come out looking good against a liar that even gets her child to lie.  I have never hit my daughter and never would.  But how can I an prove it!  I don't get to see her as regularly as the CO states that I should, so I am hardly likely to treat her badly when I do get to see her.  The opposite is the case.  I know she is not treated well with the BM and I do all in my power to make her happy during my parental time with her.  I know the BM and her husband and the grandma hit my child because she told my cleaning lady several months ago.  That lady has since moved out of town and cannot be called as a witness.  And in any case, even if she could, I worry about further punishment for my daughter.  For allegations like that, proof is needed.  Although it appears as if the BM can make allegations without proof, just by getting my daughter to lie with her.

I do have some tape recordings of my daughter that would be very helpful if heard by the judge.  I have to give copies of all evidence to the opposing attorney within about ten days.  I wondered if anyone might know the correct way to handle a situation where I wish to present certain tapes as evidence, but to protect my daughter, ensure they are not heard by the opposing attorney or her mom, because that would mean certain and severe punishment for my daughter.  I really need for the judge alone, to hear the tapes.  I've been reading up on privileged information in evidence but have not found out that tapes such as the ones I have, are classified as privileged.

What is happening is relentless.  Most of what I thought would happen, has happened, and then some.  Thanks for all the help so far.

Simplydad

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #26 on: Aug 10, 2011, 01:04:25 PM »

One of the most worrying things here is that the BM is getting the child to lie to the police and the counselor.  She has been told to say I hit her.  If ever she gets a graze or a scraped knee, she is told to tell the counselor I caused it.  My child has admitted this.  Even worse is the fact my child says she will continue to do it.  She is compliant (a) to avoid punishment and (b) to get some praise.


This right here is going to pretty much destroy your ex.  The fact that you are being told this information will be her undoing.  Your child knows that she is being coerced into this and she is telling you so you are not suprised.  If you were not being told you would have a reason to be concerned but this is not the case. The best thing to do is not to address these with your PEW with these issues.  Document everything your child tells you and the date and time you are told.  This will come in handy because you will be able to show a pattern with a time frame to go with it.


If it were just the BM lying that would be one thing, but with the child saying what she is told to say, I am not sure of the best way to handle it.


They best way is by documenting and completely ignoring the Ex.  Trust me....it works.


I also fear that if an AD LITEM is appointed, that even though the AL is only concerned with the child's rights, that in this case, the child would be told to lie to the AL.  In fact, I am certain that would happen.  Basically, it's impossible to stop the child lying and saying what she is told to say.  There is no way to stop that.  I've told her it's important to be truthful, and so on.  But the bm has created a severe dependency to control the child, and the child is programmed in a way not too dissimilar from brainwashing.  So, although an Ad Litem would be great in normal circumstances, I believe the BM could get her way even more easily if an Ad Litem were appointed.


The GAL would be your child's attorney and must act in the best interest of the child.  Will your ex tell your child to lie to the GAL?  I am certain of it.  Keep in mind this is not something your ex will be able to control.  The GAL is not supposed to care about your issues or your ex's issues.  Her only obligation is to represent your child and will have to do so with all of her ability.

However....you can (and should) be present to all meetings your child has with the GAL.   If you have joint custody your Ex will not be able to prevent that. You have as much legal right to information about your child as she does.


It is helpful to know that the judge won't take too much notice of police escorts and the BMs fictitious reports.  The BM is determined to get her way, and she is upping her game by getting the child to lie.  I don't see how a judge can ignore a counselor, even if not properly qualified, who states the child confides in her that she is treated mean and hit. 


This is where the GAL will come in.  You can request that your child will go and see a counselor that is actually qualified in child counseling.   


All the BM has to do here is get visitation changed.  I know the courts won't take away joint custody at the next hearing.  But if visitation is changed to being supervised, the BM will achieve her goals. 


Supervised visitation can only happen if it is in the best interest of the child.  Your ex has nothing but he said/she said and that is all.  There will have to be documented proof of everything.  She is basing this on report of abuse but there are no police report, no CPS involvement or anthing like that.   



I am not too sure how to come out looking good against a liar that even gets her child to lie. 


Again the courts see this type of thing every day.  I can assure you that you will not go into the court and be the first one with these accusations against them.  The courts will not be fooled by this either.  you mentioned that a previous attorney mentioned your ex's attorney is a sleeze. If other attorney's know it....so do the judges.


I do have some tape recordings of my daughter that would be very helpful if heard by the judge.  I have to give copies of all evidence to the opposing attorney within about ten days.  I wondered if anyone might know the correct way to handle a situation where I wish to present certain tapes as evidence, but to protect my daughter, ensure they are not heard by the opposing attorney or her mom, because that would mean certain and severe punishment for my daughter.  I really need for the judge alone, to hear the tapes.  I've been reading up on privileged information in evidence but have not found out that tapes such as the ones I have, are classified as privileged.


Just ask that they be presented and the judge can watch them in chambers outside of the presence of the courtroom.   

Heston

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #27 on: Aug 10, 2011, 01:52:22 PM »
Thanks, simplydad
 
What you are saying really makes sense and is very helpful.  I am not sure what will happen at the hearing, but on the assumption that the counselor would tell the judge that my daughter tells her I'm mean and hit her, and that the BM says the same, is it likely that the judge won't pass judgment based on that, and will appoint a GAL if I request one, to find out exactly what is going on? 
 
 

Kitty C.

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #28 on: Aug 10, 2011, 08:53:57 PM »
Not with the police reports he won't.  When you add all the evidence together, and given that your child is telling YOU the truth, I think the judge will have a hard time believing a conselor who isn't 'offficially' a counselor to begin with.
 
Why do you think your ex's antics have gotten more and more outrageous?  Because she's become desperate, that's why.  And desperate people will do desperate things.  She's already messing up and she will continue to do so.  Be there when it completely falls apart on her.
 
It's important to look at this from a different perspective:  psychologically, she has you exactly where she wants you, totally thrown off kilter and on edge.  But when you realize the idiotic mind games she's playing and see them for what they truly are (a ploy to stress you out), you have the upper hand.  You kind of have to step away from the emotional BS that she's feeding you and look at this whole situation from an analytical standpoint.  Take away the emotion and all you have left is the desperate actions of a con-artist grasping at straws.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

Heston

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Re: Advice needed please on responding to Court Motion
« Reply #29 on: Aug 11, 2011, 05:59:22 AM »

Not with the police reports he won't.  When you add all the evidence together, and given that your child is telling YOU the truth, I think the judge will have a hard time believing a conselor who isn't 'offficially' a counselor to begin with.

Why do you think your ex's antics have gotten more and more outrageous?  Because she's become desperate, that's why.  And desperate people will do desperate things.  She's already messing up and she will continue to do so.  Be there when it completely falls apart on her.

It's important to look at this from a different perspective:  psychologically, she has you exactly where she wants you, totally thrown off kilter and on edge.  But when you realize the idiotic mind games she's playing and see them for what they truly are (a ploy to stress you out), you have the upper hand.  You kind of have to step away from the emotional BS that she's feeding you and look at this whole situation from an analytical standpoint.  Take away the emotion and all you have left is the desperate actions of a con-artist grasping at straws.


Thanks Kitty C, it's helpful to have objective viewpoints.  I can see that the BM is becomming desperate but have still been very worried and stressed by her behavior because so much is at stake.  I will concentrate on getting the police reports and hope that logic prevails.

 

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