children don't want to visit dad

[notnew]

You cannot protect them from an emotionally absent and uninvolved father. Let the relationship take its' own course and stop trying to direct it. You left out a LOT of pertinent information and that is why some of us went in the direction we did with our posts.

YOU are only responsible for the portion of the childhood experience that the kids have with you. You cannot direct and oversee what goes on with their father, grandparents, etc.

If you are so comfortable with talking to him, why don't you talk to him about this? There may be things you aren't aware of. The kids may be manipulating things or,  you may be 100% right and there is absolutelly NOTHING you can do about that. You knew the type of person he was when you married him and you still decided to have kids with him. You cannot change that now.

He is most likely parenting just as he was parented. Many of us with rotten parents never learn how to rise above it and do better for ourselves and our children. I am not among that group, but I know of many and I also know that it was difficult for me to recognize the behavior patterns I was repeating even though I hated them. Not everyone has the fortitude to step out of roles they have been forced to live in, yet have become complacent with.

Being overprotective to make sure your kids have a "happy" childhood experience is a detriment to them. It will not produce well adjusted adults who know that life comes with good and bad. Let them deal with the relationship they have with their father. If one or the other comes to you with complaints about dad, tell them they need to talk to him about how they feel. They are old enough to handle this themselves mom. IF, they continue to have problems, I would talk to dad in a conversation out of the hearing of the kids and don't tell them about it. If you talk to dad, you have to be non-confrontational. The kids are teen and pre-teen - a lot of this may have a lot to do with that and nothing else. Who knows? Nobody will unless it is handled carefully and soon.

I told you that I may be wrong, but I still don't think I am totally off the mark. Missing them on the weekends they are gone is still too much emotional attachment no matter if you are remarried or not. Crying when they are gone is too much. I still think you need to take a close look at how you are reacting to this situation and realize that you are most likely contributing in some way.

[Kitty C.]

:-)

[ctmom]

I don't cry when they are gone.  I enjoy the weekends with my husband, but I am nervous that my ex will not have the patience needed for 2 brothers who constantly pick on each other.

My current husband is not close to my children.  Unfortunately, his daughter who is now 17, left 11 months ago from our house because she and my husband had a disagreement.  She has missed so many important things in our lives as we have missed hers.  This really takes its toll on my husband when she does not acknowledge anything (no Christmas card, birthday, or father's day).  He, knowingly, is being stubborn because when it happened, we were told by her stepfather that she would call when she is ready.  It has been almost a year--how long does that take???

anyways, when the boys are home, they get all they need from me, which sometimes is a huge weight on my shoulders.  they do not like their stepdad because he is strick.  Their dad simply wasn't around the way a dad should have been.  I did not have the help and support in raising 2 boys before we were divorced.  Now I have the help and my boys don't understand why their stepdad gets upset when they talk back to me or don't listen the first time.

The boys have come a long way--believe me.  I am very proud of them. They didn't see their dad on Father's day because he asked them if they wanted to and they said no.  He did not force the issue.  I, on the other hand, said they should see him because he loves them.  They reply that they get ignored and forgotten about.  It is heartbreaking.  I keep neutral as I can about it and really encourage them to try with him.

It is so hard for me to imagine what their little lives are like.  My parents have been married 43+ years and are very happy and stable.  I really wish I had that for my boys, but I don't and I'm trying my hardest to make their lives happy.

Thanks for being there, everyone.  This helps so much.

[MixedBag]

Do the boys like books or video games?

What about sending them with a good book to read or a new magazine to read???

Or small games they can play with each other -- like with a deck of cards?

Or video games -- like a PSP that's small and can fit in their back pack, or take it a step up and buy a used XBox and send it over with a couple of games they like.

Or let them take their skate board, or bike, or something to play outside like a basketball?

Or a small portable dvd player with a couple of movies?

And I agree with the others -- no, it's not their choice whether or not they go.  NO you can't support them not going in ANY WAY SHAPE or FORM.  And if you are anxious about them going, they're gonna pick up on it, period.

I am the CP to two girls who are not emancipated.  Their dad -- well, he's a good man, but work came first.  Imagine this:  When OD was 17, and she was supposed to go to dad's for Christmas, she went into her boss in the restaurant and said "I need to take a week off over Christmas."  Her boss said "Everyone always asks for Christmas off, and so no one gets it."  She said "Well, I have a court order that says I get to go see my dad over Christmas, and I hope when I get back that I have a job."  and she left to go see her dad....  All because from the very beginning, I supported them going to see their dad.

Heck, I still do -- just last Month, their step-brother(25) died after battling cancer and I paid for their tickets to go to the funeral.  Next month I'm taking all 6 of them to the airport to fly out again to go see their dad.  So in many senses, even though they are emancipated, the support emotionally doesn't end.

You can do it too.

[notnew]

The fact that your 2 boys constantly pick on each other tells me that there is more going on here then the rosy picture you attempt to portray.

My wife has children who are grown. Yes, they did pick on each other. At times, they picked on each other too much and now she can see that those times were directly related to conflict in their parent's lives and the parenting styles both were displaying which conflicted with each other. The manipulations by these children worked a great deal of the time when their parents were still married. It caused the other child to feel angry and retialate by picking on the other child.

Your boys are 11 and 13. You say it is so hard to imagine what their little lives are like. WAKE UP LADY!! They are not toddlers or young children. They are old enough to know what is going on and use it to their maximum benefit.  

The boys are NOT getting all they need from you alone. Stop fooling yourself. They need a strong male in their lives. Their father wants to be a part of that picture and YOU are standing in the way. Your new husband could be a secondary male influence, but for whatever reason, that is not working right now either. Who knows, he may be standing in the way too.

I understand completely how children can resent a new husband who is strict and stands with the mother in discipline and rules. I lived with that with my wife. However, we stood together and didn't back down no matter how hard they tried to pull us apart on issues. The result? One of the kids called ME yesterday for Father's Day, and is very close with his mother. The other is spoiled rotten by her father and isn't talking to her mother right now because mom doesn't hand out cash whenever it is asked for like dear old dad. I stand with my wife on the lesson her daughter needs to learn from us. If her father's actions prevent her from getting this valuable life lesson, then that is not our fault. However, knowing that she most likely will never understand why her mother has taken this stance, doesn't change the fact that it is her mother's JOB to try to teach her this lesson. These two are grown adults now. There has been a lot of issues that never had to exist due to the way their father behaved through the years, but we could not change his behavior or be responsible for it.

You  have no idea how hurt their father is right now that he wanted to spend time with them on father's day and you allowed them to make the choice. Of course, they know what you would prefer them to choose, so they stayed at home with you. I don't understand why you can't SEE that you are NOT responsible for what is going on with them when they are with their father.

You also let out little tidbits of information in each post that give me greater insight that indicate there is more going on then you are letting on. Your ex husband may not be the father your dad was or the father you envision in your "white picket fence world", but nonetheless, he is their dad and he obviously wants to spend time with them and YOU are getting in the way of that. I know that for years, I was with my child EVERY opportunity I had and NEVER missed any parenting time allotted to me in the court order. Due to the actions of her mother, which resulted in severe PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME, my daughter would often come to my home in a sullen mood, make snarky remarks, hide in her room the entire time, refuse to participate in family activities, etc. Her behavior made the weekends with her an event we dreaded instead of anticipating with joy. Imagine going to pick up your child for the weekend and wondering if she will be a normal kid this time or behave like a brat? Will she be dressed appropriately or look skanky again? Will she want to participate in our plans this weekend or will we have to drag along a child who behaves badly and ends up being an embarrassment? This had nothing to do with the type of parent I am or the things I did or didn't do with her when she was with me. I strived to provide a "normal" home and refused to be a Disney Land Dad. The price I've paid is a fully alienated child and I'm currently not involved in her life at all. She knows I am there for her, but also that I will never approve of the things she is being allowed to do.

Your situation is much deeper then you may or may not realize. You need to understand too that often on this site, we get what we call trolls. They are women who come here to antagonize matters. Some of what you post strikes me as close to this. I am NOT accusing you of coming here to stir up trouble on purpose. I am only letting you know what has happened here in the past so you can understand why many of us are so defensive.

I see your continued failure to see the message that is being conveyed to you in many different ways as you failure to recognize the true role you are supposed to play in your children's lives. I see you as being an overbearing and overprotective parent who isn't allowing your children to learn their own life lessons when the time is right. I see you are keeping them as little children and not responsible for themselves. I think you will regret letting things continue in this vein.

Again, I encourage you to see a counselor on this matter and relay what you have posted here so you can get a neutral opinion on this that perhaps you will respect more then what you are getting on here.  I truly think that your view of the situation is not a true picture of what is really happening. I think you need help to see things in a neutral light.

Again, I say, if you have such a great line of communication open with their father, why won't you talk to HIM about your concerns? What is going on that prevents YOU from parenting with their father?

I hope you take some of the suggestions posted on here and use them to improve things for you and your children.

[mistoffolees]

All very well said. I hope she gets the message.

[mistoffolees]

Just in case there's any question remaining on the importance of your supporting your kids' need to see their father, please view this web site. It will only take a few minutes:
http://www.tacmovie.com

While the slide show presents a father, it applies to both parents just as well.

[Kitty C.]

'It is so hard for me to imagine what their little lives are like. My parents have been married 43+ years and are very happy and stable. I really wish I had that for my boys, but I don't and I'm trying my hardest to make their lives happy.'

Good God, lady, you need a LIFE!  Here I thought you were borderline like SS's BM, but I was wrong.........you could be sisters!  At the expense of repeating myself, here I go again:  You are NOT RESPONSIBLE for your children's happiness!  'Little lives'?  They're teen/pre-teen..........they're playing you like a fiddle!  They know exactly what to do or say to get the reactions they want from you and know exactly which buttons to push.

But as long as you have a court order regarding visitation, they do NOT have a choice whether they want to see their dad or not.  If you can communicate with him so well, you both must agree that you canNOT give them a choice whether they go to see him or not.  Regardless of what they say or do.  

I'm sorry to come off so strong, but what you're doing is just as (if not more) damaging than what their father is doing or not doing with them.  My son was just as upset with his stepdad because our lives were a turmoil before DH came into our lives.  At one time, I know DS absolutely hated DH.  But now that he's older (18), he understands what DH was/is trying to do for him.  The behavior that your boys are displaying is absolutely typical of teen/pre-teens who know how to get what they want.  Once you put your foot down, refuse to allow them a choice in seeing their dad, and stand side-by-side with your DH on discipline, you will see a big change in their attitudes.  But in order to get there, you will need some professional help to get rid of the old habits and form new, positive ones.  Untill all that happens, nothing will change and the damage to your boys will continue.

This is the prophesy I have for my SS and his half-brother (who's BM thinks she must make them happy).  When they turn 18, they will tell her to kiss off, walk out her door and won't look back.  She's done them no favors by trying to ensure their happiness and SS has been biting back at her for 2-3 years already.  You have a chance to undo all that has been done up to this point.  Make the changes you must make now, so that the same doesn't happen to you and your boys.