Gentlemen its time to help us help ourselves!

[Troubledmom]

Now there is the proper forum to attack this from...
CHILDREN'S RIGHTS!

Our children have the right to TWO parents equally involved in their lives, our children have the right to not feel as if they must be loyal to one or the other parent, that they can love BOTH their parents without fear of reprisal, our children have the right to know that even if their parents no longer live together that they will be taken care of by both of their parents, our children's rights...

Because when you get down to it, this isn't about Mom or Dad, this is about our Children.

Get Children's Rights Laws on the books and all Parents win.

TM

[Peanutsdad]

>Any group that advanced their cause to correct what they
>perceived as social injustice utilized social protest, and in
>some cases, revolution. The War For Independence, The Civil
>War, The Woman's Suffrage Movement, The Black Civil Rights
>Movement, The Anti-War Movement in the 60s, The Pro-Abortion
>Movement, and The Women's Right's Movement are among the many
>social upheavals that resulted in active protests by the
>participants. It is unfortunate that you do not view what is
>happening to men in this country as having the same importance
>as the other serious social issues that have plagued this
>country.

How I view the issue is apprarent by my own actions and time spent helping other parents. You Sir, assigned it as my having a cavilier attitude about it. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, since I choose to fight my fights on it in a different way than you desire, you elect to diminish it.






>
>And yes...all the above was considered radical protest at the
>time. That's how new laws get passed. By social organization
>and protest. Period.
>
>You seem to imply that anyone who actively campaigns for what
>they believe in via petitions, etc. is a radical-fringe-type
>and are "wasting their time." If that were true, all the
>campaigners for Kerry and Bush, and every voter in this
>country would be in that class.


I imply nothing. You do. I stated in my first post my own feelings of MY time and how I consider it wasted,, not yours or anyone elses.



>
>This is supposed to be a democracy and one of the
>responsibilities that comes with a democracy is that the
>citizens must ACTIVELY be a part of it. Serving your "own
>cause" is fine, but does nothing for the common good.
>Eventually your own cause will deteriorate because the common
>good will deteriorate.

Nor do I vote,, never have,, never will. That is a choice I have in a free society. I secure the rights and duties I percieve my due by my own efforts and work. Where I get help, I return it. What Sir, have you done for me today? Thats what I thought. Nothing. So what entitles you to make demands or make assumptions ?





>
>As far as finding the time. I attend a very good group in the
>state where I live. They are good men. There is just not
>enough of them.  These guys are construction workers, gas
>station attendants, executives, the whole gamut. They find the
>time.

I'm very glad for you:)
I on the otherhand, devote my time to my family and to this website. Tell me, what has the group you attend accomplished?




>
>I think I hear the macho rattle of "take it like a man" in
>your remark about your dignity. Are you implying that men who
>publicly protest are whiners?  Wimps? It is this macho
>attitude that has placed us where we are. We have been taking
>it and taking it.

Who said anything about macho??? My MOTHER raised me to be dignified, even if I should live in a tent and have rags for clothes.
Once more, I dont imply, you do.





>
>While you have custody, most of the men here do not. Some of
>them have tried as hard as you and lost. I have 50/50 and
>could feel the same way as you, but I do not.. I was lucky.
>You were lucky. (Perhaps that is the reason for your political
>indifference: you have what you want, so the hell with
>everyone else.).

Yes, I do have custody,but I started out as the ncp. I paid my cs, I lost my vehicles, I drive a 20 yr old car . Tell me,, were you involved in this issue prior to having a vested interest in it??
Once again, I am not a political activist, not politically indifferent, and what is a waste of my time is not necessarily a waste of your time. Your time is just that, and its not my call to tell you how to spend it, please refrain from that with mine.






>
>You are neglecting the most important issue: What about your
>grandkids? Your daughter just might have sons, ya know? Would
>you want them to grow up in a world with a court
>system that is exponentially worse than it is now?

Gee, Im now neglecting my childrens future and my grandkids. I'd like to see you back up your alarmist statements about the future chickenlittle.
From where I sit, I see it slowly and surely,, getting better.





>
>This will be my first and last response to you. I have no
>desire to perpetuate an argument on this board.

Nor I,, good luck. So in the interest of not starting an arguement, dont slant my statements, dont imply, stick to the facts of what I said.



>
>For anyone else interested in being a "radical activist," and
>"wasting your time" some of the previous posts
>contained good references, especially the one mentioning Dr.
>Baskerville. He spoke at the Million Dads March last
>year...pity there was no one there to hear him.


Want to help people,, educate yourself,, offer desperate fathers AND ncp mothers help here when they are begging for it. You have a platform right in front of you, and an audiance begging to listen.
>
>

[Peanutsdad]

TM, I have YOU to thank for helping me not go all the way over into radical fathers rights. It would have been easy to.

I have and still firmly believe that kids need BOTh parents with the exceptions that are obvious.

[tjraid18]

    What good does it do when we are being ran over by our ex's AND the legal system ---- to run over each other. We are all adults here. I think this is one of the obstacles we are facing in not being able to help one another to be able to help our children have equal access to both parents. If we are to get organized ---- this isn't the way to do it. I thought Antonin has an excellent point and I've thought the same thing myself; that activism is how change is made. It's how laws come to pass. Peanutsdad through his actions and way of dealing with his situation deserves nothing but admiration and respect. He has cusdody but still takes the time and energy to help others. And now TM is making the ultimate point and reminding us what it's all about. Were all going in different directions --- not coming together.
     From little acorns come mighty oaks!!!! With a little nurturing and co-operation from mother nature a beautiful tree will grow. A group of people who work together can accomplish a great deal. 1,000,000 people who DO NOT work together can accomplish very little. Let's work together ---- Lets take the positive and use what we all have to offer together. It's not about who has the best ideas, or who is the most helpfull, or who is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. It's about getting more equality recognized in the courts and in society for ALL of our childrens sake. I can honestly say that I hope changes are made soon not just for me and my kids ---- but for all of ours. And for the ones that will find themselves in our situation in the future. Lets all do what we can to try to stop that from happening TOGETHER...

                                           Please and thank you,
                                                                           tjraid.

[antonin]

Any group that advanced their cause to correct what they perceived as social injustice utilized social protest, and in some cases, revolution. The War For Independence, The Civil War, The Woman's Suffrage Movement, The Black Civil Rights Movement, The Anti-War Movement in the 60s, The Pro-Abortion Movement, and The Women's Right's Movement are among the many social upheavals that resulted in active protests by the participants. It is unfortunate that you do not view what is happening to men in this country as having the same importance as the other serious social issues that have plagued this country.

And yes...all the above was considered radical protest at the time. That's how new laws get passed. By social organization and protest. Period.

You seem to imply that anyone who actively campaigns for what they believe in via petitions, etc. is a radical-fringe-type and are "wasting their time." If that were true, all the campaigners for Kerry and Bush, and every voter in this country would be in that class.

This is supposed to be a democracy and one of the responsibilities that comes with a democracy is that the citizens must ACTIVELY be a part of it. Serving your "own cause" is fine, but does nothing for the common good. Eventually your own cause will deteriorate because the common good will deteriorate.

As far as finding the time. I attend a very good group in the state where I live. They are good men. There is just not enough of them.  These guys are construction workers, gas station attendants, executives, the whole gamut. They find the time.

I think I hear the macho rattle of "take it like a man" in your remark about your dignity. Are you implying that men who publicly protest are whiners?  Wimps? It is this macho attitude that has placed us where we are. We have been taking it and taking it.

While you have custody, most of the men here do not. Some of them have tried as hard as you and lost. I have 50/50 and could feel the same way as you, but I do not.. I was lucky. You were lucky. (Perhaps that is the reason for your political indifference: you have what you want, so the hell with everyone else.).

You are neglecting the most important issue: What about your grandkids? Your daughter just might have sons, ya know? Would you want them to grow up in a world with a court
system that is exponentially worse than it is now?

This will be my first and last response to you. I have no desire to perpetuate an argument on this board.

For anyone else interested in being a "radical activist," and "wasting your time" some of the previous posts
contained good references, especially the one mentioning Dr. Baskerville. He spoke at the Million Dads March last year...pity there was no one there to hear him.

 

[Troubledmom]

Now there is the proper forum to attack this from...
CHILDREN'S RIGHTS!

Our children have the right to TWO parents equally involved in their lives, our children have the right to not feel as if they must be loyal to one or the other parent, that they can love BOTH their parents without fear of reprisal, our children have the right to know that even if their parents no longer live together that they will be taken care of by both of their parents, our children's rights...

Because when you get down to it, this isn't about Mom or Dad, this is about our Children.

Get Children's Rights Laws on the books and all Parents win.

TM

[Peanutsdad]

>Any group that advanced their cause to correct what they
>perceived as social injustice utilized social protest, and in
>some cases, revolution. The War For Independence, The Civil
>War, The Woman's Suffrage Movement, The Black Civil Rights
>Movement, The Anti-War Movement in the 60s, The Pro-Abortion
>Movement, and The Women's Right's Movement are among the many
>social upheavals that resulted in active protests by the
>participants. It is unfortunate that you do not view what is
>happening to men in this country as having the same importance
>as the other serious social issues that have plagued this
>country.

How I view the issue is apprarent by my own actions and time spent helping other parents. You Sir, assigned it as my having a cavilier attitude about it. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, since I choose to fight my fights on it in a different way than you desire, you elect to diminish it.






>
>And yes...all the above was considered radical protest at the
>time. That's how new laws get passed. By social organization
>and protest. Period.
>
>You seem to imply that anyone who actively campaigns for what
>they believe in via petitions, etc. is a radical-fringe-type
>and are "wasting their time." If that were true, all the
>campaigners for Kerry and Bush, and every voter in this
>country would be in that class.


I imply nothing. You do. I stated in my first post my own feelings of MY time and how I consider it wasted,, not yours or anyone elses.



>
>This is supposed to be a democracy and one of the
>responsibilities that comes with a democracy is that the
>citizens must ACTIVELY be a part of it. Serving your "own
>cause" is fine, but does nothing for the common good.
>Eventually your own cause will deteriorate because the common
>good will deteriorate.

Nor do I vote,, never have,, never will. That is a choice I have in a free society. I secure the rights and duties I percieve my due by my own efforts and work. Where I get help, I return it. What Sir, have you done for me today? Thats what I thought. Nothing. So what entitles you to make demands or make assumptions ?





>
>As far as finding the time. I attend a very good group in the
>state where I live. They are good men. There is just not
>enough of them.  These guys are construction workers, gas
>station attendants, executives, the whole gamut. They find the
>time.

I'm very glad for you:)
I on the otherhand, devote my time to my family and to this website. Tell me, what has the group you attend accomplished?




>
>I think I hear the macho rattle of "take it like a man" in
>your remark about your dignity. Are you implying that men who
>publicly protest are whiners?  Wimps? It is this macho
>attitude that has placed us where we are. We have been taking
>it and taking it.

Who said anything about macho??? My MOTHER raised me to be dignified, even if I should live in a tent and have rags for clothes.
Once more, I dont imply, you do.





>
>While you have custody, most of the men here do not. Some of
>them have tried as hard as you and lost. I have 50/50 and
>could feel the same way as you, but I do not.. I was lucky.
>You were lucky. (Perhaps that is the reason for your political
>indifference: you have what you want, so the hell with
>everyone else.).

Yes, I do have custody,but I started out as the ncp. I paid my cs, I lost my vehicles, I drive a 20 yr old car . Tell me,, were you involved in this issue prior to having a vested interest in it??
Once again, I am not a political activist, not politically indifferent, and what is a waste of my time is not necessarily a waste of your time. Your time is just that, and its not my call to tell you how to spend it, please refrain from that with mine.






>
>You are neglecting the most important issue: What about your
>grandkids? Your daughter just might have sons, ya know? Would
>you want them to grow up in a world with a court
>system that is exponentially worse than it is now?

Gee, Im now neglecting my childrens future and my grandkids. I'd like to see you back up your alarmist statements about the future chickenlittle.
From where I sit, I see it slowly and surely,, getting better.





>
>This will be my first and last response to you. I have no
>desire to perpetuate an argument on this board.

Nor I,, good luck. So in the interest of not starting an arguement, dont slant my statements, dont imply, stick to the facts of what I said.



>
>For anyone else interested in being a "radical activist," and
>"wasting your time" some of the previous posts
>contained good references, especially the one mentioning Dr.
>Baskerville. He spoke at the Million Dads March last
>year...pity there was no one there to hear him.


Want to help people,, educate yourself,, offer desperate fathers AND ncp mothers help here when they are begging for it. You have a platform right in front of you, and an audiance begging to listen.
>
>

[Peanutsdad]

TM, I have YOU to thank for helping me not go all the way over into radical fathers rights. It would have been easy to.

I have and still firmly believe that kids need BOTh parents with the exceptions that are obvious.

[tjraid18]

    What good does it do when we are being ran over by our ex's AND the legal system ---- to run over each other. We are all adults here. I think this is one of the obstacles we are facing in not being able to help one another to be able to help our children have equal access to both parents. If we are to get organized ---- this isn't the way to do it. I thought Antonin has an excellent point and I've thought the same thing myself; that activism is how change is made. It's how laws come to pass. Peanutsdad through his actions and way of dealing with his situation deserves nothing but admiration and respect. He has cusdody but still takes the time and energy to help others. And now TM is making the ultimate point and reminding us what it's all about. Were all going in different directions --- not coming together.
     From little acorns come mighty oaks!!!! With a little nurturing and co-operation from mother nature a beautiful tree will grow. A group of people who work together can accomplish a great deal. 1,000,000 people who DO NOT work together can accomplish very little. Let's work together ---- Lets take the positive and use what we all have to offer together. It's not about who has the best ideas, or who is the most helpfull, or who is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. It's about getting more equality recognized in the courts and in society for ALL of our childrens sake. I can honestly say that I hope changes are made soon not just for me and my kids ---- but for all of ours. And for the ones that will find themselves in our situation in the future. Lets all do what we can to try to stop that from happening TOGETHER...

                                           Please and thank you,
                                                                           tjraid.