Dr, do you have any experience dealing with a true narcissist?

[catherine]

If so, any suggestions for handling them?

[grazer]

I am not the doctor, but I have been dealing with a "True" narcissist for a long 10yrs. My ex wife is a "True" narcissist. My ex wife has physical custody of my children. Before my ex wife and I divorced, we both took the MMPI testing during the course of our marriage and family counseling. We both subpheona each other's test results during the course of the divorce. My ex wife was attempting to prove via the test that I was clinically depressed and thus an unfit spouse and father. I found out via ex wife's test results that ex wife had a very bad personality disorder, Narcissisium. And her narcissism had fully developed.

There is a web site and author of a book that explains narcissism. The only advice I can give you for dealing with a "True" narcissist, is that if you can stay away from the person that is a narcissist, the better off your life will be. A "True" narcissist is a very sick person and will make any person's that has a direct realationship with the narcissist, crazy.

A narcissist has to have the approval and praise of person's that are close to them. This approval and praise is like the need of a drug for a drug addicted person. Also a narcissist is a very self centered person, and it's whole view of the world is about the narcissist/person. A narcissist views person's that are close to them and others, are only to be used by the narcissist. And a narcissist will use person's to only benefit the narcissist and other person's that the narcissist comes close to are viewed "only" as what they can do for the narcissist and serve no other purpose.

The narcissist I have been dealing with only views it's children as a possesion. The children have no other use or value other than to validate the narcissist's need to prove to others that this narcissist's is a good mother. That this narcissist will go to great lengths to prove to other's a myth that this narcissist is a good parent/mother. But behind the secenes and behind closed doors this narcissist is a horrible mother and has done horrible things to my children(neglect, verbal abuse, spend all monies for the narcissist's benefit not the children's benefit, ect.)

Also, a narcissist will lie, steal, fraud, and do just about anything it wishes. A narcissist does not have conscious. Also, a narcissist spends it's whole time attempting to portray something it is not. A narcissist is in a constant search and constant attempt to portray it's self something other than what actually the narcissist is. Also, a narcissist will lie, steal, cheat, or do just about anything to win. And I mean win at anything, win arguements, win court battles, win at any sports, win at any games, win the approval of others, win the praise of others, ect. ect.!

Also, a narcissist's does not like to be considered common or as a common person. A narcissist's always thinks it's self as
being/having  "grandeur".

To answer your question, 'How to deal with a narcissist?'
You stay away!

[Kitty C.]

What you wrote struck a chord with me.  Can you pass on that website  and the title of the book you mentioned?  I'd like to look into this further.  Thanks!

[catherine]

I noted a "true" narcissist because a person can have nascisstic tendencies but not the personality disorder.

I am a firm believer that our PB has the disorder.  It's difficult to "stay away" when DH and her have kids together!

[United]

Our PB is Histrionic.  This disorder has many of the same characteristics as Narcissism, but is much more theatrical.  Drama about EVERYTHING is sought after.  Every cold is a "horrible virus" for sympathiy.  Every new guy in her life is "the love of my life, my soul mate" - so after two weeks she's moved in and involving the kids in every detail of their relationship.  

By far the most damaging characterisistic where the kids are concerned is that they aren't allowed to "feel" things - only she is.   If they disagree with her "they hurt her feelings".  If she misses their performances, due to a date and they tell her , SHE cries and says "they have devastated her and how could they hyrurt HER like this, etc."  What this does to them is make them afraid to feel anything. They live in fear that she will "react" in dramatic fashion .   They feel "guilty" all the time.

She can't stand to be alone, because if she's alone she will disapear.  So she has called at 10pm to see if the kids can come over to "keep her company and sleep with her because she's all alone".   She won't discipline because they might "get made at her" and leave her alone.  

It's alwful.  However, she can be exteremely charming, and is excellent at portraying herself as the helpless damsel in distress, worthy of  rescue. She is the eternal victim.  Nothing is her fault and she is not capable of accountability.  If you disagree with her you are a "bully".  She lies without remorse and does it so much I think she believes what she says.  The kids both lie, I suppose due to the extent of exposure to it and encouragement not to "tell".   And the youngest child has stated that he thinks lying is "an instinct - something he just does..."..    The teen years are going to be soooooo fun.

I sympathize with you greatly!  Unless you have been around these narcissitists-types it is hard to convey the amount of damagae and distruction they can to do to a family.  No one would believe that they can do the things they do and get a way with it.  But they do.  She is rewarded for her behavior all the time.  Her current boyfriend (who "rescued" her from the one....." ) is buying her a house and paying her bills because she's too "stressed out" to work (DH had his CS increased because she was "unable to work due to stress" as well).  

[grazer]

Yes you are very correct about a true narcissist causing much damage and having the very easy ability of not paying a price for the actions of the narcissist's. A true narcissist, in my opinion, is a "very" dangerous person and will cause/extract great problems and harm to person's that are closest to the narcissist. A huge problem with a true narcissist is that they have "no" conscious or they believe everything is another person's fault. If a narcissist steals money from someone, they believe that they have every right to take the money because after all the person they stole the money from, either has plenty of money or the person actually owed the money to them. "As my ex wife did: She changed the amounts on medical bills on my children that she was sending and I was suppose to reimburse her for. My ex's reasoning for changing the amounts on the bills was that I already owed her and I had been deliquent on reimbursing her on prior billings. Also that I was wealthy and she was poverty."

The above example is a prime example of the way a true narcissist thinks and rationalizes it's actions. Also, once a narcissist is caught and made to be portrayed/publicly exposed, a narcissist will find other targets and will attempt continue to use or fraud other's. As my ex has done. My ex's new/latest victim is the state/federal government and her local community. My ex has obtained State Medicaid and Federal Food Stamps. My ex lied on the application for both, stating her income to be much lower than it actually is. The amount of income a person can have and be approved for medicaid is very low. But my ex wife own's a 2story home, w/swimming pool in backyard, in nice neighborhood, plays tennis for recreation 3-4times a week, takes expensive week long vacations about every 3-4months. But receives medicaid and food stamps? But my ex uses some of the food stamps to purchase grocery's and then prepares some of the food and takes it to the homeless shelter to feed the homeless.

A narcissist will also be totally self serving and only do what the narcissist believes that the public expects. Example: My ex took my handicapped son to rehab therapists. She was very public about how many times that she took son to therapists. She was very public about how many times that she had to take off of work to transport son to therapists. But very seldom did she actually attend the therapy sessions with son and basically did not have a clue as what the therapists were doing with son. The therapists had repeatdly requested via son for son's mother to attend the therapy sessions, so that the therapists could show son's mom exercises that son needed to do at home. After months of non-compliance of son not doing home exercises, the therapist discharged/terminated therapies. The above is a prime example of how self centered ex is and how a narcissist will portray that image of being a very good mother/provider, but cause great harm.

Once confronted with the facts of ex's failure with son's therapy. Ex rationalized that the therapist was at fault and that ex really did not like the therapist and that the therapist was to far away(across town). That a new/better therapists is needed(4th therapist). Even though the last therapist was highly recomended by a doctor and trained/specialized in treating son's type of condition. Son's current therapist is not specialized.

[StPaulieGirl]

An excellent website:

http://www.geocities.com/vaksam/introduction.html

"Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited"
The Introduction: The Habitual Identity

This has excellent links also:

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/aftermath.html

I was a member of N_Magnets Anonymous for several years.  It's a Yahoo group, and you can learn a lot from the members.  Unfortunately it can also get pretty depressing, which is why I don't participate anymore :-(

[StPaulieGirl]

I am a firm believer that our PB has the disorder. It's difficult to "stay away" when DH and her have kids together!

Yeah, you're right.  Unfortunately the sanest thing to do is to run....if you can.  Check my post to KittyC.  There's some good links.  

[StPaulieGirl]

You know, I've argued about personality disorder here.  Imo, it's not the gender, it's the personality.  My ex husband could be both your ex's twin.

God the lies he tells.  My kids lie.  The teen years are no fun, so brace yourself.  And the attitude?  I posted about his latest letter of instructions on the Father's board.  People probably think I make too much of things, but you all know how they love to yank the chain.  I was married to mine for 19 years. There are things I just won't talk about. The youngest is 9, so I have 9 years to go.  Between his lies to get his wife hooked, and the neighbor from hell (whom I "devalued"-see rant and moan on general issues board, lol), my health kind of did a weird turn.  

Notice how nothing sticks to them?  Brand new houses, new cars?  Look, the man does work for a living, but when I personally know a guy who had to live out of his van for 2 years, because of his divorce....I just have to ask if these people have Satanic protection.  

Does anyone have a problem of being a "magnet" for these types of people?  Besides my ex, I had a boss who was completely insane(conditional Jesus freak) and hired me personally, then my neighbor decided to be my best buddy.  She moved in when I was 10, and my mom couldn't stand her.  Unfortunately my mom had some problems, and it conditioned me.  Hey at least I take after my dad :-)

One more thing...this is contagious.  All I wanted was peace and sanity in our lives.  Nothing fancy, just a peaceful boring existence.  My kids have "it", so nothing is ever peaceful around here.  Oh well.

[catherine]

This was in jest and means a lot more if you know the whole story which would probably take about 5 years or at least a 20 page paper.

NPD

Crazy, insane, mentally ill
You really need
To take a pill.

Self admitted bipolar
God won't cure you
Born-again, holy roller.

Blinded by insanity
You need to work on
Your vanity.

Egomaniac to the extreme
Beyond our world
Self esteem.

Poet, author, soldier, and more
Cop, lawyer, doc, medic
All ideas that you adore.

I'll tell you what you need to do:
GROW UP
And see a doctor too

------------------------------------------------

Yup, this has to be one of the toughest disorders to deal with.  She is such a great con artist and always protrays herself as the victim or as the hero when in all actuality her "reality" is so far from the truth it's sickening.