Not at all about custody, but I need help FAST

[DMcD]

Here's the situation: I have 3 kids ages 6, 4 and 2. I live on a street with several other families. One family has a little boy about 6 years old. He would often come to the house to play with my kids.

The child perpetually lied about everything. He was completely uncontrollable and I finally limited his time with my kids to as little as possible without cutting contact. His parents never knew where he was and it seemed he was somewhat neglected. I felt bad for him.

Late last month, he asked if he could have a kitten (my cat had a litter several weeks before). I told him that he could have one if his mom and dad said it was OK, but they had to come tell me. I knew that he would lie if I just told him to go ask. Instead of asking his parents, he took one without my permission. I didn't notice the missing kitten that evening.

My next-door-neighbor came over and told me that the little boy had taken a kitten and had killed it and thrown it in his garbage can. What's more, he came back the next day and taken another one, prompting my neighbor to tell me. I made the little boy give it back (although he initially denied taking either one).

I told him not to come back to my house. He still comes over. It has been daily for the last few days. I asked him if he understood how bad it was to kill an animal and he looked at me with this blank stare. I asked him again and he said "no". I haven't talked with his parents because I have no clue how to broach this subject.

This child has some serious emotional problems. I know enough about psychology to know the warning signs of future sociopaths and this kid has already met the worst of the criteria.

My questions are:

1. Should I talk to this kid's parents? If I should, I have no idea on how to open the converstation or how talk to them about getting their child some mental health treatment. I would need some advice on how to do that.

2. Would calling our local mental health department and letting them know what this child has done be appropriate?

3. Given the neglect and the fact that the parents do not seem to know where their child is for a large portion of each day, would calling CPS do any good? Would they at least make sure he got some counseling?

I don't know what to do. The child had been asked, told and threatened not to come to my house anymore and he won't stay away. I have several pets and three young children. I can't have this child around my house. Please help!

[msjanbo]

From what you say, I think going to the parents would be a waste of time.  They don't appear to care where or what their child is doing simply by their lack of concern over his whereabouts.

I would contact CPS, but remember, your neighbor that witnessed the "killing" (dead kitten at least) would have to make a statement too.  Since you didn't actually see the dead kitten, your statement might be construed as hear-say.

You might also wish to contact the local police department and file a complaint with them.  The PD would contact the child's parents and get them involved - forbidding their child to get within so many feet of yours, etc.

Final note - getting CPS and police involved will create a negative atmosphere for you and this child's parents.  However, if they are as neglectful as you state, it shouldn't be a problem.  You obviously don't have a friendly relationship with them anyhow.  Your children and your pets' safety are more important than "stepping on the toes" of your neighbors.  Their child's behavior is grossly inappropriate and shows some psychological damage.

[smtotwo]

Last fall our cat had kittens and one of them mysteriously died while my the 8 yr old ss was playing with it.  The next day I caught him "playing" with another kitten.  H e had it under a shoe box anda ws crushing it.

Since then there hadn't been any other incidents. Then this last week we went camping and fishing. SS caught a fish that was too small to keep so instead of just letting it go he slammed it as hard as he could into the water and thought it was funny!   Later the 11 yr old SS told me that younger ss has smashed a frog with a hammer!!  THIS IS REALLY DISTURBING TO ME!!  DH refuses to speak to psychomommy about it,
so i refuse to let ss play with any animals at our house.

[DMcD]

I don't claim to be anything close to a psychologist but I have taken several college psychology courses, one of which was abnormal psychology. Killing animals is a sign that the child may have Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Those with ODD often grow up to be adults with anti-social personality disorder or sociopathic (not sure what the fine line is from one to the other because they are both very bad). If my child ever killed or abused an animal after the age of 4 (because they often don't know better at younger ages), I would rush him into counseling. If it's caught early, the child may get the help he needs. Otherwise, it's a craps shoot. They could turn out fine, they could turn into serial killers.

I don't want a future serial killer near me or my kids, but I don't know quite how to approach the subject. They are my neighbors and I don't want them firebombing my house or making my life difficult. I have no idea what to do!!!

[skye]

Dont assume that since you havent seen the parents that they dont care..I would tell them...better I would make him go to his house with me and make him tell them...but thats me

Killing animals is a sign that the child may have Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Those with ODD often grow up to be adults with anti-social personality disorder or sociopathic (not sure what the fine line is from one to the other because they are both very bad).

My son is ODD/ADHD/OCD....he has been in counseling since age 4...he has never hurt an animal....

[DMcD]

As I understand, killing an animal is a serious warning of possible ODD and future anti-social behavior. Because the human mind is so complicated, psychology is an inexact science and no psychologist can be certain of all their diagnoses. However, a child may have ODD and never hurt an animal or they could hurt animals regularly but not meet any other ODD criteria. Because your child has been in counseling since an early age, I'm sure his symptoms are minimized quite a bit.

That said, according to the DSM V, the child living up my street has several warning signs of ODD. Untreated, he could become dangerous. If I upset the parents, depending on their reaction to my speaking to them about their son's behavior, they could become difficult to live by or even dangerous themselves. They may be grateful that I brought the behavior to their attention. I have no way of knowing since they rarely speak to me other than when they are looking for their son. Hence my difficult position.

I don't think I've known anyone who has been in a situation quite like this and I just need some advice. If I get enough suggestions, I might be able to make a good judgment on how to handle this sensitive subject.

[skye]

DMcD..


if you are uncomfortable with talking to the parents you should call someone ...the child needs help, you as a responsable adult who sees that and  also know he is screaming for it...

you know we have always been friends here and I am in no way attacking you nor was I in my last post there are a lot of things that can cause a child to kill an animal and one of them is abuse...is that a possibility?

[DMcD]

I don't know about abuse. He has never shown up with cuts or bruises that are not normal for his age range. I had to take a CPS course when I worked for the Child Support department because we were manditory reporters. We were given warning signs for abuse and I haven't seen anything overt. He always says he's hungry, but his uncle (who is only a teenager) told me that he always eats. He's healthy and usually well dressed in clothes appropriate for the weather.

He lies about everything. Most of it is not to get out of trouble, he just lies. I have never encountered any child like that before. It seems he may have a minor speech impediment and possibly a low IQ and/or learning disabilities. He's older than my ODS but his language level is closer to my YDS (who is almost 4).

As for his parents, he had often been at my house for well over an hour or more and they would ask if he was here, indicating to me they didn't know. Sometimes they would come over asking for him and he wasn't here. They seem to let him run all over the neighborhood with little or no supervision. He may be neglected. He may be emotionally abused. He is frightening in his behavior and actions. He is completely uncontrollable when he is at my house and I usually had to send him home for not following the house rules. Most kids will try to be on their best behavior when at a friends house. He might have been trying but he couldn't or wouldn't control himself.

The father seems nice enough but I think he works full time. I believe the mother stays home with the boy and her other child, who is about 2 or 3 years old. Dad seems very proud of his son and the mother strikes me as being a little unprepared for parenthood. They are fairly young and obviously low income. If I wreck dad's perception of his son or offend mom because she already feels like she's not doing a good job, they may react badly. I know if anyone says anything about my kids or my parenting on a less than positive note, I get really upset. I try to make myself step out of the box and see the big picture, but talk to any school principal and they'll tell you most parents won't and will defend their kids to the end regardless of the behavior they exhibit.

I'm a stone's throw away from their house and I am afraid to talk to them. I'm afraid not to talk to them. I don't want to call the police or CPS if I don't have to. I just don't know how to approach this.

[wendl]

If it was me I would.

1st go talk to the parents together (bring a friend along) explain that while their son is at your house he will not follow household rules and therefore unfortunately he is no longer allowed to come play.

Then follow it up with a letter so you have a trail.

I would rather a parent come to me about my child 1st, maybe they just don't know or don't want to know.  Maybe by talking to them things may get better.

I had a neighbor whos child was horrible, he would hit, bite, kick, lay on my infant smothering him, crap his pants and not go home til forced, run wild thru the neighborhood. Once I told him to go home and change his pants as he poo'd, a minute later he came back, not chagned. I called his mother and told her she needed to change her son (she was busy on the phone)  I went and talked to the mother and explained that what her child is doing at my house is not acceptable and if he would like to continue coming over he would need to follow my rules. After the talk with the mother, things started to get better.

If none of that helps, call the authorities.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[smtotwo]

SS-9 was scratched by our cat, who is such a butterball and baby that my friends 2 yr old can drag him around by his tail like a stuffed animal and he just lays there.

Unless SS did something serious to this cat theres no way he'd ever scratch.  He just doesn't.

DH wont talk to psychomommy so I just said that he is no longer allowed near the animals.  DH can act like its no big deal and psychomommy would just say its our fault so now its become  "MY HOUSE_MY RULES".  And sadly for DH thats is how it will be because it is MY house.

The boy needs help and they wont do it so I guess I'll just do what damage control can be done at my house.