Why looking to keep c/s low?

[ocean]

I agree to split the costs but then split ALL the costs, not just the copays. I do not ask my ex to give me $7.50 (half co-pay) when he is pays child support. The bigger costs (daycare, big dentist bill) then we split. Activites-I talk to him and we see if we can both do it or if I can do it alone.

Housing costs should not be haved. You would need to a place to live. It is the child's portion of those bills and if you really added it up it would not equal the cild support guidlines (not in my case anyway...we chose to not go by guidelines but my actual costs).

By your numbers it cost your half for your child is $1000/month? If this is truem then you are VERY lucky because I know many people that barely clear that amount around here.

College costs-My state allows children from divorce to get "Support" from both parents BUT children from in-tact families can NOT. How is this fair? What you want to do for your own child or what you can afford it your business not the courts.

Many people in this country live paycheck to paycheck (me included!) and barely have a savings. Many CP/NCP's were living fine while together but then when the divorce happened and now they needed two "households" which makes money tight in both homes.

[timtow]

"Why would you be surprised? There's a reason you're getting divorced after all. Put the shoe on the other foot. If you are NCP, how much will you give your ex?"

Are you serious?  How about everything I make beyond retirement saving and living expenses as skinny as I can make them, which -- in my case -- is pretty skinny?  (I don't have family around here, or it'd be even less.)  It's not giving it to my ex; it's giving it to my child.  If I thought my ex wouldn't take good care of the money or use it for the intended purposes, I'd just structure the c/s so that all money above state min went to specific service providers (preschool, camps, etc.)  

And yes, retirement saving is also part of providing for children.  If we don't do it, they'll have to pick up our slack.  Which is a lot more money and responsibility, for a lot longer, than it was for previous generations.

Yow -- at least I know the ex isn't thinking that way about it.  He doesn't fear I'm going to spend her money on me.

Sorry if it comes across as judgmental.  I'm just shaking my head at some of what I'm hearing here.  If you can find your way to a message board and post messages like what you've got there, I guarantee you can do better hourly in the wee hours than delivering newspapers.  Look around online, if you want.  

I gotta get back to work.  More tomorrow on this one, maybe.  I'm serious, the obstacles I'm hearing here sound to me surmountable.

[timtow]

OK, gotta reply real quick:    

"I agree to split the costs but then split ALL the costs, not just the copays. I do not ask my ex to give me $7.50 (half co-pay) when he is pays child support. The bigger costs (daycare, big dentist bill) then we split. Activites-I talk to him and we see if we can both do it or if I can do it alone."

I agree about splitting all costs, but if you pick up more than that, you short yourself on retirement saving.  In the end makes retirement hard for you and the children, since they're the ones who'll have to decide how to support you if you need substantial help in old age.  Meanwhile they'll have kids of their own to raise.  Old women make up a very large percentage of poor.  Caring for Mom/Dad over long declines is increasing source of stress/poverty/job loss for middle aged, leaves grandkids without college help.  Being old is expensive here now, will get more so as baby boomers break the system.

"Housing costs should not be haved. You would need to a place to live. It is the child's portion of those bills and if you really added it up it would not equal the cild support guidlines (not in my case anyway...we chose to not go by guidelines but my actual costs)."

Agreed, child's portion.  Have 3br house (2br, one office) with modest mortgage, exc. school down the street.   Have added it up, and it still costs about $600/mo more than I'd spend on myself.  Half of the overage seems fair, & that eats more than half the c/s min.  True I live here; I also do the work of maintaining/cleaning, & protect his equity, will do the work of selling it in the end.  No lasting benefit from the overage, either, as it's a young mortgage and nearly all the payment goes to interest, taxes, insurance.

[Renee]

WOW, some people really do see things as black and white and nothing else.  I am assuming that you are talking about my second job delivering newspapers so, what is it that you suggest I do?  After all, I came here for support and for some answers ,not to argue about who is the better parent.  I don't think you read the entire posts anyway because then you would see that I am on BOTH sides of cs.  I am divorced also and receive peanuts in child support and owed alot of back child support and will never see it.   That is ok because I have spent the last 17 years sacrificing and giving my children everything I could.  I want to because they need me and then   I happened to meet the most wonderful man in the world and married him and his ex sees to it that she takes us to the cleaners even though we have the kids more waking hours than her.  We do provide for their needs that she does not.  If she doesn't get it then we do.  We would never dream of making them go without.  What it seems you are saying to me ( I apologize if I am wrong ) is that some children should go without and others should get everything.  (remember I have four bio children that I support almost entirely) and when my husbands ex takes a good portion of what he earns  then it is our household  and the kids that live here that end up sacrificing.    Also, if you read my post you would see that my husband's ex DOESN'T have a job.  She spends her days running up bills she can't pay and then WE become responsible and ALL of our children end up sacrificing.   One of my bio children  NEEDS surgery and that is a priority NOT braces for cosmetic reasons (which he also needs medically).  We could have worked on one at a time with the orthdontia work like most people not three and almost a fourth.    She went on a trip recently.  We certainly don't get that luxury.   That is ok though because I would rather provide for my kids than worry about taking myself and my husband on a vacation.  We will get that when they are grown which happens all too soon.   I can also go back to school and have a career that I have always wanted, something I sacrificed so that I could work from home....yes I do that to.....12 hours a day (plus the paper route) and not have to miss all of their extracurricular activities.....we have lots with nine kids and they are all active....again something I can't get back later.   I am a tired lady too but they are worth it and my husband  and my step children  are worth the awful ex we put up with.  I am not trying to say I am superwoman because the majority of the people here are all in the same boat...that is why we come here.  We are just looking at how we can keep from getting slapped around by her when we are good Christian parents who ALWAYS look out for the well being of our children and she uses them as pawns.    We would gladly be primary of all of the kids and not ask her for a dime.  I may not have given birth to all of them but they are all the same to me.  My husband and I have discussed that many times that we would be primary of all and not recieve any cs.  As I said, her own parents and sister agrees.  We were informed about a little blog she had and she kept a good diary of where the child support went because she wasn't working....while my husband was in Iraq she took the cs and spent it at the bars, on little adult toys, on entertaing guys, buying new outfits for her excursions....she stated in the  blog about how her daughter comented on it and all the while the grandparents had the kids most of the time because she denied me seeing them even though it was their wishes and they called me behind her back.....need I go on? He had a huge financial mess to clean up when he got back.  Sorry about the long post but obviously it is hard to get a point across  unless you do.  I don't know why I bother anyway.....I only have one judge....God...you know because you said you go to church too....we have Him on our side.  I wish everyone the best who reads these messages boards.  Sometimes it feels so lonely in our struggles.  If only we lived in a perfect world....God Bless you all!!

[sdbleve]

>And yes, retirement saving is also part of providing for
>children.  If we don't do it, they'll have to pick up our
>slack.  Which is a lot more money and responsibility, for a
>lot longer, than it was for previous generations.
>
>Yow -- at least I know the ex isn't thinking that way about
>it.  He doesn't fear I'm going to spend her money on me.

So maybe the solution is to "structure" the child support so your ex is paying the state guidelines. Then when you both agree that something is needed for your child (something outside the day to day needs) , you can make those arrangements together. Then you can split the costs down the middle. And, when you can't agree, and your daughter is with you, you can be responsible for incuring those costs. When she is with your ex, and he wants to do something for her or with her, and you do not agree, he can incure the cost.  That way you both feel like you are equally involved and equally responsible.

I am assuming you have 50/50 custody, and work together to make decision regarding your child.

[lucky]

Did you read the first and last paragraphs only?

What about grocery store checkers, stocker, etc.?  People who have kids should NOT take those jobs?

What about the people who work in nursing homes?  We NEED those people, yet they don't get paid much.  Those people should NOT have kids, correct - they can't give them what you say kids need.

What about the people who are physically disabled and CAN'T work?  Those people should NOT have kids because they can't provide them with what YOU think are the necessities?

Not everyone can get or have a high-paying job and quality of life is more important than quantity of stuff.

You don't live in the real world obviously and I hope like hell that it doesn't screw your child up royally.  I live in a college town too and used to work at two of them (try 7 colleges within 15 miles) and I've seen SOOOO many kids who "have it all" and blow it all because they had no idea what the real world was like.  In fact, I was one of those kids and it took me 10 years to get my head on straight and finish my degree, get my "dream" job, etc.

Protecting them from everything will not necessarily create healthy, happy adults because they won't know what to do when something bad does happen.  And something bad will happen.

I won't be posting to this thread anymore, nor reading it, it's obvious that you are not willing to be open-minded, you just want to force everyone to believe the way you do.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[timtow]

Yeah, that's probably how it'll go.  I'd prefer that we figure it up and do it legal, though, because otherwise I have no guarantee he'll pay.  He might say that, say, music lessons are a great idea, pay for the first month, and then stand there turning his pockets inside out (he's got disability income of -- well, let's just say the amount that the insurance co. pays into his retirement account alone is more than he'll be paying in c/s monthly, and if he's off disability he's capable of making big bucks, just wants to switch to a low-pay career and go to school).  Then I'm there stuck either telling the kid "no more music lessons", with the lesson attached that there's no point working at something because it's just going to get yanked, or paying for the whole thing myself.

I'll have primary care.  Liberal visitation.  

[timtow]

Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be unsupportive.  I'm aware you're on both sides.  All I'm saying is that yes, there is freelance/WAH work available online that pays considerably better than paper routes do.  If your prob is no money, that's a potential solution.  I'm not a career service, but the jobs are there if you look for them.

Whether X works or not, or is a tramp or not, is, it seems to me, her problem.  It doesn't change your hub's obligation to the kids, and though it may not seem so to you, $1200/mo for 5 is really not a lot.  Average middle-class kid costs $200K to get to age 18, depending on cost of living where you are, and at that support level, your husband's contributing about  $52K total, birth to 18, per kid.  So at most about a quarter of the cost of raising them at what most would consider a good standard of living.  Just talking about the money there and leaving aside all the other wreckage their mom brings in.  I think a lot of these support conversations devolve into "but she could __________", and wander away from the idea that the support obligation is absolute.  Has nothing to do with what the other parent does or doesn't, has or hasn't.

How is she able to run up bills you can't pay, btw?

I would never say some kids should go without while others get.  I think that's wrong.  I just believe in planning for these expenses and the possibility of divorce.  In my 20s I saw a lot of friends end up in bad trouble when their husbands left them with little kids and no education, and it was hell.  Decided I'd wait till I could do it reasonably on my own if necessary.  Glad you have a wonderful hub.  

Also glad you've made peace with your x's arrearages.  I'd still be going after it aggressively till the expiration of the statute.  To me it seems that belongs to the kids.  Obviously you can't get blood from a stone but if he gets an inheritance or anything else down the line, it may be possible to get it for the kids.  

[timtow]

That's pretty close.  I'd say that if you know in advance that you can't give an ordinary child help beyond basics -- and that in fact you're going to have real trouble with even the basics -- you probably shouldn't have kids.  Love is great, but the kids still have to eat, live in safe places, get whatever help they may need, and compete in the end with strong, healthy kids who've been to school and been free to work hard there & develop their talents.  I think you have to ask yourself what kind of a life you're setting a kid up for, and if it's not too nice, well, you don't have to do it.  It's not like we're short on people.

Nobody here has talked about protecting kids from everything.  I think you're reading in to what I'm saying.  The majority of the have-it-all kids do very well for themselves, btw.  I'm thinking now of my college friends; most are high-income with multiple degrees, successful businesses or practices.  Most enjoy their lives, and their struggles come from things like deaths of parents, not lack of health insurance or fear that their kids won't get basics.

OK, I gotta get back to work, yikes.

[Stirling]

Any good financial planner will tell you, if you can't do both, to fund your retirement rather than fund your child's college education.  This way your child won't be financially burdened with elderly parents who can't support themselves.

If you still want to help your kids maybe start an IRA for them instead of paying for college.