Please HELP- Extraordinary Medical and Daycare

[JAMingori]

Does the state of WA require the NCP to sign a waiver for extraordinary medical/dental expenses, such as braces?

Do they require the CP to bill the NCP for their portion of extraordinary medical/dental expenses?

In order to provide daycare for a the children involved does thre provider need to be licensed?

Is the CP able to use older daughters as daycare providers?

[ocean]

Not in your state but...
Daycare-If you are to pay it should be a licensed daycare (you could then also get the tax credit). Older siblings do not count (but if she is willing to have them watch them for a far less amount you may win here).

Braces-Most times they will count it as long as it is necessary. Make sure you get what the insurance paid for first before you start paying anyone. If it can be arranged, pay the dentist directly. Then you know you are paying the out of pocket amount. (same with medical bills-get a cancelled receipt for proof of payment and make sure the insurace does not re-emburse the other parent).

I never heard of a waiver...it is usually court ordered for medical reasons and not cosmetic. It is based on the perecentage of the two parents salaries.

[JAMingori]

Ocean:

Thank you for your insight!

For some reason, I had thought that I needed to sign a waiver for extraordinary medical/dental.  I wasn't aware that there were any extraordinary expenses until after they had been incurred, more specifically the braces.  However, I am unable to tell whether the need was cosemetic or not.  I am completely unaware of any extraordinary medical expenses.  

Is there some RCW or WAC code that I can get in writing with regard to the licensed daycare requirement?

She had my portion figured out to the last dollar in terms of claiming she paid the older siblings -- but only my portion and not her own.

Thanks again!

[ocean]

Go by the court order. What does is exactly state about daycare? How much is she asking for "your" part? If it is equal to an after-school program then forget it. The courts are going to want her to produce a receipt. I was able to bring what it costs me every month and it was ordered right away (out of the paycheck) BUT it needed to be a licensed daycare facility so I can WORK. Can you off to pick up the child instead?

Braces- If any insurace is paying then it is not for cosmetics. You may be ordered to pay braces if she brings in the estimate. Then you can pay them directly.

[JAMingori]

Ocean:

I am required to pay $226.08 per month and she is required to pay $133.92.  I know for a fact though that she has not incurred daycare expenses since 2000.  She does have receipts for 1999 and a receipt for a partial year for 2000.  That is it.  She claims that I underpaid daycare in 1999 - but wouldn't that be split based on the calculations that were used to determine support in the first place (porportional share of income)?

I cannot pick them up because I live in MI and they reside in WA.

I don't believe that the braces were covered by insurance.  Can I request a copy of the bill submitted to the insurance company?

[Renee]

My husband and I just went though this exact situation.  We were paying daycare expenses that didn't exist and she put three of the five children in braces even though my husband said he could not pay that much extra on top of the $1200 a month he was already paying for child support.  We were left out of the decision making entirely.  We could have more easily helped pay for one child at a time like most people do but she did it anyway (against the shared parenting agreement).    Anyway, we had the "daycare provider" and her tax records subpoened (sp?? but you know what I mean) along with any receipts that they could provide and of course it was discovered that there were in fact no daycare expenses.  So, through mediation they deducted all of the money that was overpaid for "daycare" and applied it to the balance that my husband has to pay for his share of orthodontia bills.  In order to pay the rest of the balance we are going to continue paying the same amount of child support (the "daycare expense" becomes the orthodontia expense) until it is paid in full and then the child support will go down and not reflect any "daycare" expense.  

We were told there is really no way of getting out of paying that much even though she went ahead and had the procedure done without my husband's consent as stated in the shared parenting agreement because in the original divorce papers it states that he would help pay for orthodontia.  He just thought she would be more sensible about it and only have one child at a time having orthodontia work done.  We were also told that the judge could order him to pay a large lump sum instead of making payments that we are already used to paying.  

Also, it would be a long shot to get the orthodontist to say it wasn't medically necessary.  Isn't that how they make money?  If they say it needs to be done then of course people are more apt to having he work done and not putting it off.

[Renee]

    My husband and I just went though this exact situation. We were paying daycare expenses that didn't exist and she put three of the five children in braces even though my husband said he could not pay that much extra on top of the $1200 a month he was already paying for child support. We were left out of the decision making entirely. We could have more easily helped pay for one child at a time like most people do but she did it anyway (against the shared parenting agreement). Anyway, we had the "daycare provider" and her tax records subpoened (sp?? but you know what I mean) along with any receipts that they could provide and of course it was discovered that there were in fact no daycare expenses. So, through mediation they deducted all of the money that was overpaid for "daycare" and applied it to the balance that my husband has to pay for his share of orthodontia bills. In order to pay the rest of the balance we are going to continue paying the same amount of child support (the "daycare expense" becomes the orthodontia expense) until it is paid in full and then the child support will go down and not reflect any "daycare" expense.

We were told there is really no way of getting out of paying that much even though she went ahead and had the procedure done without my husband's consent as stated in the shared parenting agreement because in the original divorce papers it states that he would help pay for orthodontia. He just thought she would be more sensible about it and only have one child at a time having orthodontia work done. We were also told that the judge could order him to pay a large lump sum instead of making payments that we are already used to paying.

Also, it would be a long shot to get the orthodontist to say it wasn't medically necessary. Isn't that how they make money? If they say it needs to be done then of course people are more apt to having he work done and not putting it off.

 
 

[Renee]

My husband and I just went though this exact situation. We were paying daycare expenses that didn't exist and she put three of the five children in braces even though my husband said he could not pay that much extra on top of the $1200 a month he was already paying for child support. We were left out of the decision making entirely. We could have more easily helped pay for one child at a time like most people do but she did it anyway (against the shared parenting agreement). Anyway, we had the "daycare provider" and her tax records subpoened (sp?? but you know what I mean) along with any receipts that they could provide and of course it was discovered that there were in fact no daycare expenses. So, through mediation they deducted all of the money that was overpaid for "daycare" and applied it to the balance that my husband has to pay for his share of orthodontia bills. In order to pay the rest of the balance we are going to continue paying the same amount of child support (the "daycare expense" becomes the orthodontia expense) until it is paid in full and then the child support will go down and not reflect any "daycare" expense.

We were told there is really no way of getting out of paying that much even though she went ahead and had the procedure done without my husband's consent as stated in the shared parenting agreement because in the original divorce papers it states that he would help pay for orthodontia. He just thought she would be more sensible about it and only have one child at a time having orthodontia work done. We were also told that the judge could order him to pay a large lump sum instead of making payments that we are already used to paying.

Also, it would be a long shot to get the orthodontist to say it wasn't medically necessary. Isn't that how they make money? If they say it needs to be done then of course people are more apt to having the work done and not putting it off.

[4honor]

DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney.

Daycare and ordinary health care is part of the transfer payment. It is ordered and therefore, to get more $$ she would have had to show the court daycare was not available for the amount she was previously paying a provider and have the order changed.

In WA, if a person is not a family member of the child, they need a license. However, if a family member is providing daycare, they are not eligible for the federal tax credit on daycare paid. (Catch 22.) Do not agree to anyone under the age of 18 caring for your child as a "daycare provider". Demand liability insurance should be proven for ANYONE (family or not) providing care for your child while the parents are not with the child... do you want your costs to increase because CP used a teenager and the child was seriously hurt?

"Extraordinary" medical expenses are those which EXCEED 5% of the total support amount on line 5 of the worksheets (also calculated out at line 8e.)

If Line 5 is $800 a month and line 8e is $40 a month, then $480 a year is deducted from the medical expense total before "extraordinary" expenses kick in.

As far as I know, there is no requirement that an NCP or a CP sign a waiver for anything other than release of the tax exemption.

On a case by case basis, ExOrd Medical expenses are handled. DH's CS order requires BM/CP to USE the provided medical insurance FIRST, then to submit invoices from the doctor once insurance has been applied. This is 2-fold: 1)the insurance knocks down the bill to the "allowed/contracted" amount, then 2) it pays it's covered proprotionate share. When DH gets a copy of the bill, he has 30 days to pay the provider or to make payment arrangements with the provider for his share. Provider gets paid directly. Over the counter medication/bandaids were handled as a day to day expense, not a medical one. Prescriptions were paid out of pocket and a receipt was forwarded (original not a copy). None of SS's prescriptions have exceeded the Ord Expense.  DH's order also says BM has to discuss any non-emergency expense with DH first if it is going to exceed $100 a month. (Which would increase DH's obligations over $30 a month above CS). So the ExOrd expense amounts dropped to NOTHING over time.

Since the last Order,  we have sent providers a copy of a spreadsheet with their cost, insurance reduction, insurance payment credited, and the "ordinary" amount in the CS order transferred to his ex's side of the sheet (deducted from teh total and placed as an additional charge on CP's side). Then the percentage on line 6 is applied to the balance and DH would pay off HIS balance, or pay a portion and offer a do-able payment plan. We would break it down into $50 or $75 payments and do the first one with any "left over" (i.e. 6 payments of $50 with $12.54 left over. First payment $62.54 with 5 payments of $50 to follow.) Never had a medical provider balk when a plan was offered with money in hand.

If you have not agreed in the Divorce Decree or previous parenting plan to pay for Orthodontia, then DO NOT agree. If you have already done so before, you may not be able to back out now.

You need to be aware of what WA calls the "law of the case". Anything that has been litigated or agreed to BEFORE, can be used again as a basis for future orders unless something specific about that element of the case has changed. If you agree that orthodontia is beneficial to your child, then you can be locked in, regardless of whether you can pay for it or not when the time comes.