Child Support and Chapter 7 bankruptcy

[hoosierpapa4]

If I had time, I could write a book on all the crafty (and crappy) things my x has tried to pull....

The latest is that she has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in the Federal Court system where all bankruptcies are heard.  She included a judgement for child support in her filings but didn't disclose that it was indeed child support.  Under the bankruptcy laws, you are not to be "forgiven" or "relieved" of your obligations in a Domestic Order (CS).  I have spoken with the Trustee's who handle these types of matters and they have suggested that I write a letter to her Attorney with evidence that shows the previous orders of the Court that contradict her claims that this is just a normal judgement of the Courts.

I have written my letter, provided information to her Attorney that refutes her claims that this is anything other than CS.  She testified under oath that this is NOT CS.  Penalties for perjury in Federal bankruptcy court, when it's of a material nature (not disclosing assets as one should, artificially increasing the amount of a debt owed so as to make it a no-brainer in the assets to debts columns, or the nature of the debt) is $500,000 or 5 years in prison as a maximum penalty.

I don't necessarily want to see her punished, but want to encourage her attorney to either 1) amend the filing or 2) withdraw it entirely, in either event, the CS should show back up on the worksheet as a priority non-secured debt ....

Has anyone else had to deal with a crazy, got nothing to lose x-wife that's pulled this kind of stuff?  Any advise?

[notnew]

Has she had her final hearing for the bankruptcy? If not, show up at the hearing and raise your issues. The hearing I am talking about is the one where the creditors who want to object or try to collect on part of the debt are invited to attend. You should be on that list.

I would stop being the nice guy and not communicate with her attorney any longer. Send a letter to the trustee of her bankruptcy along with copies of pertinent orders and let them handle it. You cannot control how the action to correct this is handled. There are rules to follow and BM has failed to follow them. Alert the proper authority and let it go.

My ex has pulled some real doozies. My advise, go on with your life and don't let her actions faze you. When she realizes she isn't getting under your skin anymore, then she may go in her own direction and even is she doesn't, you won't be worried about it anymore. Recognize that the dynamics of the relationship you two had will remain the same until YOU change them. She knows what gets to you. Change the rules of the game.

I would just notify the bankruptcy court and let the chips fall where they may. Perjury very rarely gets prosecuted so I wouldnt' worry about her doing time for it, but the debt should be excluded from the bankruptcy.

[hoosierpapa4]

I agree with your assessment, however it's going to cost me between $1200-$1500 to get an attorney to represent me as I have done as you suggested and they simply don't care.

So, at this point, I have to examine whether or not $1200-$1500 is appropriate to recover $11000 dollars.  In my assessment is that it is worth my time, but it frustrates me that I must continually have to chase after what's rightfully mine.  Pisses me off actually.

The Trustee's are doing nothing.  They continually tell me to get an attorney to represent my interests.  I know that I can stop the clock by filing a "motion for relief from stay" which will force her attorney to come to court and represent her interests where I would then have an opportunity to show the orders showing that it is child support.

I am seriously considering having an attorney do this and ask for fees if they will permit fees.

[mistoffolees]

>I am seriously considering having an attorney do this and ask
>for fees if they will permit fees.

There's no reason not to ask for fees.

If there's a legitimate dispute, judges will typically make each side pay their own fees. But if it's completely one-sided and the other person is simply ignoring the court orders, it's not uncommon to have fees awarded. But you won't get it unless you ask. For that matter, ask for interest on the debt, as well.

[notnew]

I agree with Mist. She knows better then to put the child support judgement under the bankruptcy and so does the attorney handling the matter.

You know what you need to file, I don't see why you would have to get an attorney, but if you feel you must, then do so. The trustee telling you that is not right, but many in the legal field behave in this manner. It's like a clique' they are all part of because they are members of the club and they certainly don't want the riff-raff rubbing elbows with them! If only they all realized that they are peering up at us from the gutter!

Yes, you are in the right to ask for interest and your attorney fees to be paid. Hell yeah I think it's worth it to collect the money. Do you think everyone would be blowing it off the same way if you were the one that owed the money? These are one of the examples of the biased system that I see all the time. to me, any amount of money would be worth it because of the principal of the matter.

It's your kids money. Go for it. It will be a huge chunk of college expenses if nothing else.

sorry for typing errors. I am at a different computer and hate this keyboard!

Good luck.

[mistoffolees]

Since this one looks like a very high probability of winning and a better than even chance of getting fees, I'd avoid doing it myself. Better to make sure it's done right - and it shouldn't be that expensive even if you don't get the fees.

[jcsct5]

The trustee is required to recommend you to get an attorney to represent your interests, and trustees are not necessarily attorneys so to say that they are part of a "club" is unfair.

My husbands ex tried to have a judgment for reimbursement of marital debt discharged in bankruptcy. Ordinarily she could have had it discharged, but my husband fought it and won so she still had to pay. It wasn't for child support.

Since yours is and you have a court order proving it then I would think your case would be a slam dunk. I personally would hire an attorney, however I don't think it likely that the judge would order her to pay the fees, only because she is filing bankruptcy and likely doesn't have enough money to pay. However you could argue that since she won't have all her other debts to pay since they will be discharged she would have extra money to pay the fees.

Anyway good luck and let us know how it goes.

[hoosierpapa4]

Unfortunately, you cannot ask for attorney's fees in Bankruptcy Court.  I am between a rock and a hard place.  I do know that she has NO legs to stand on, that she has lied to her attorney and the Trustee's under oath.

I plan to file a "motion for relief from stay" in this matter, it's a $150 filing fee.  I will probably have to do my research tonight and see if I can get a copy of someone elses pleadings so that I present it in proper form so that it's not rejected because I didn't caption it or indent properly.

That should force the hand of her attorney to either 1) suborn perjury (which should be fun), or 2) admit that I have a valid order from the DR (domestic relations court) showing that there is an arrearage derived from CS (and subsequent judgment), or 3) make them withdraw their entire pleading or amend and refile.

Should be fun, but I dread it.

[notnew]

I may be wrong because I don't know a whole lot about this area, but it is my understanding that the Trustee is in place to make sure everything is done by the book. If the Trustee has been alerted that a debt is not valid to be included in the bankruptcy, I would think they would have a DUTY to investigate the matter. Why in the world would you even need a Trustee if they werent' there to make sure everything was handled properly?

The courts put rules in effect and put orders in place and then when they are alerted that the rules are not being followed, they hide behind procedures and technicalities to keep from doing anything. This seems to be the case too often!

[hoosierpapa4]

Latest that I have learned is that the only way that I can intervene is to file "motion for relief of stay" which should require the Trustee and Judge to examine the completeness and correctness of the filing.  By alerting them in this forum, they either force the filer to amend their filing, or throw the whole thing out if they refuse.  In either case, it's rediculous that I must expend my $1500 to correct her $599 filing.  Will pass more along as I learn it.