Brain teaser?

[wysiwyg]

Please decifer this for me:

One-half of the period which will begin at 8:00 P.M. on the evening the child is released from school (Dec 20) and continues to December 30 at 7:00 P.M.  If the parents cannot agree on the division of this period, the custodial parent shall have the first half in even-numbered years.  In those years when Christmas does not fall in a parent's week, that parent shall have the child from Noon to 9:00 P.M. on Christmas Day.

My take:  Figure out the time between Dec 20 and Dec 30 and divide in half evening the "half" for the parent who gets noon to 9 so that each parent gets one half of the holiday.

BM says that since xmas falls in my half and my "half is over at 8 PM" the child will not come back to me at 9 since her "half starts at 8 PM.  I contend that the time is to be split in half totally and that the order is inteneded to split Chrsitmas with one parent getting 12-9 and the other parent getting to noon and after 9.  I also believe that you can not consider time NOT spent with me to be a portion of my half of the holiday.

Any ideas?

[MixedBag]

I think you're "concerned" because half of the break is over at midnight on the 25th.

Now think about it.....I agree that mom gets from 12-9 because you have the first half and Christmas falls on that half with the goal of splitting the day with the child.  

BUT the exchange for first and second half should happen at midnight on the 25th....

Consider the child -- what's really reasonable???

Or are you expecting/thinking of the exchange happening on the morning of the 26th???

Go by the "overnights" and this year you should be returning the child by the evening (probably 7 pm) of the 25th.

This half way point will move each year as the school breaks will start on different days.  NEXT year you'll get Christmas from 12-9 on Mom's time.

[wysiwyg]

if there are 10 days between 8 PM the 20 and 7 PM the 30, that would stand to reason that each parent get 5 days, meaning that that time would be over say 8 PM the 25th, follow so far?  But the clinker is that from 12-9 the child is with mom, so stand to reason that dad does not see the child for those 9 hours and the orders say that 12-9 thing, reaasonable says to me that dad gets child back at 9 pm and mom and dad should transfer off for her "half" starting the morng of the 26th.  At this point each parent gets an equivalent 5 days.

All kosher so far?  But mom states that dads "half" is over at 8 PM and he does not get the child past noon dec 25, then goes on to say that he does not get to make that up, which I believe that in all fairness on the holiday it should be that child come back  to dad to finsh out the evening with him.  This means then that dad gets 4 days mom gets 6, add to the pot that mom TOOK the forst 2 days of dads holiday and now mom has 8 dad has 2.  

[lucky]

In most (I'd bet) COs, holiday time supercedes the regular time.

Next year, will you want her to count the time with you on Xmas day AGAINST YOUR half of the break?  It's a two way street and it doesn't seem as though you are looking past this year.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[wysiwyg]

You do not understand - there is NO REGULAR time figured here!  

I am looking past this year - this is why I asked, next year it will be the same thing - only we will have the second half which incidently Christmas will fall again in my half.

[Imom]

I am in Indiana too and this is the way you break it down....

Dec. 20 at 8pm - Dec. 21 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 21 at 8pm - Dec. 22 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 22 at 8pm - Dec. 23 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 23 at 8pm - Dec. 24 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 24 at 8pm - Dec. 25 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 25 at 8pm - Dec. 26 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 26 at 8pm - Dec. 27 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 27 at 8pm - Dec. 28 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 28 at 9pm - Dec. 29 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 29 at 8pm - Dec. 30 at 7pm = 1 day

So there are 10 days to split.......Are are to do this BEFORE you see who has x-mas from 12pm-9pm......lets do so, With your post I am assuming you are taking the first half....so

Your 5 days are:

Dec. 20 at 8pm - Dec. 21 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 21 at 8pm - Dec. 22 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 22 at 8pm - Dec. 23 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 23 at 8pm - Dec. 24 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 24 at 8pm - Dec. 25 at 8pm = 1 day

Mom's are:

Dec. 25 at 8pm - Dec. 26 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 26 at 8pm - Dec. 27 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 27 at 8pm - Dec. 28 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 28 at 9pm - Dec. 29 at 8pm = 1 day

Dec. 29 at 8pm - Dec. 30 at 7pm = 1 day

Now when you look at the schedule you will see that x-mas day DOES fall on your half....therefore the bm WOULD get them at 12PM on Christmas day Per order and keeps then until 9PM BUT there is that gray area since her half of the vacation DOES start at 8PM on the 25th PER schedule then she does not have to return them.

This is an order that your ARE to follow if you 2 can not agree to other arrangements....do I things its wrong yep......you could ask for a clarification but how often is this going to happen? Just wait until there are an uneven amount of time to split there could have been only 9 days or 11 thats a joke with these guidelines when it comes to x-mas.......

[lucky]

You're right.  I re-read the original post and your order is vague and needs to be clarified.

However, it still sounds to me that the period is to be split in half THEN the noon to 9:00 is on top of that.  Basically it sounds to me that the judge was thinking that one parent gets Xmas Eve & morning and the other parent gets Xmas Day.  Which means that whoever's week it is that Xmas falls in they "lose" those nine hours.

As for the two days that she took from the beginning, that would be grounds for a) asking for makeup time then when she refuses, b) contempt grounds.

I know it's hard and I know it sucks, but you HAVE to look at it objectively.  A judge is not going to be happy to hear about an argument over a few hours -- your child will be sleeping most of the time you want on Dec. 25-26 so that's really all it amounts to: a few hours.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[wysiwyg]

I see and can agree with your reasoning, but the reason I ask is beacsue BM flips on/off like a light switch, in the last odd year she clasimed it was unfair for either parent to have the 24th and the 25th in their half therefore she mediated and deviated from the guidleines (and that was ok becasue we have a court assigned case manager order reading = In the event that there is a dispute, and in the event the parties cannot resolve the dispute according to section I(E) of the guidelines, the parties must employ the Case Manager/Arbitrator to mediate the dispute and to resolve the dispute as authorized by the Court's separate appointment Order."

Situation:  BF asked for the second half of break becasue childs half sister will be on military leave on the 26th, the child's military brother will be that same week and the child's other sister will be off school break in the second half of break.  Child and sister are in 2 diff districts.  BF had to work last week and has time off in second half, SM had to also work, child would be home alone for break.  

BM refused to respond therefore all parties made vacation plans for the second half of break including BF from his job.  BM comes along and says no you have to take the first half, refuses for 6 months to enterinto mediation (even though the court did a seperate order in August ordering her into mediation within 2 weeks and she did not) therefore she contacted her attorney (not mediation) and BF resorted to the first half. Break started with her attorney adn her refusing to discuss a schedule therefore BF lost the first 2 days of break, as BM requested proper quthorization for BF to see child.  Therefor the way I see it the Guilines and the court order stating that when the parties can not agree with the guilines they are to enter into mediation to resolve the issue, but then waht do you do when one party refuses to do that and states that?  So basic bottom line is BM gets 8 days - BF gets 2, and BM refuses to go to mediation to resolve the issue for the child, and she has cost us nearly 800 in legal fees becasue she refused to discuss it with us for 6 months.  

Can you see the frustration?  

[4honor]

I like to think in reasoning circles, so this is just my opinion. I am not a lawyer.

Since this is all in the same paragraph, and the main sentence in the paragraph is 1/2 of the period (denoting time, not calendar days) this should be broken in half with each parent getting 4 (24-hour) days, 11.5 hours, no matter how you slice it up.

Your order is pretty bad. Get it clarified or modified to give you each one half of the Winter break excluding (Noon) Dec 24 to Noon Dec 26th. Then address those days separately with NCP having eve/Morning in odd years and CP having eve/Morn in even years. The remainder of the time is split down to the hour and then make sure you are exchanging at a reasonable hour (not after 9 PM or before 6 AM).

If you got the kids at 5:30 PM on the 22nd, then you have until 2 PM on the 27th when you allow for BM's Christmas time on the 25th. (She got from 20th @ 8 to 22nd @ 5:30 PM, then from 12-9 on the 25th and from 2 PM on the 27th through the 30th.)

As for setting a prescident with this year, it is unlikely, cause NOTHING so far has been according to the order. Since this is an ODD numbered year and the plan says NOTHING about ODD numbered years, then you are "default agreeing" to a broken up split of the "period".

The order says in even numbered years the CP has the first HALF (so if this were 2006, you would be stuck with a half and half chunk by default). This year you could trade off every hour and meet the conditions of the plan the way it is written.

[Imom]

Have you asked your attorney to file contempt on 1. refusal of mediation and 2. denial of visitation (because if she failed to give the kids up on the 20th @ 8pm thats contempt)........?

There are a lot of gray areas in the guidelines....lucky we don't have to follow them......but I know a few people who do and posters on another state site do.