Counseling

[kaylene99]

Hi all,

Hope everyone's doing well.  I'm stepping out the rock I've been under for so many months to once again ask your opinion/advice on something.  

My 13-year old stepson has been diagnosed with ADHD when he was about 6 or 7 years old.  His mother is the custodial parent and insisted for this diagnosis.  From the beginning, he has been on different ADHD medications.  At one point, he was on  Ritalin but that didn't last long.  The last medication that we know of is Strattera.  My husband and I were very skeptical about medicating for many reasons but mainly for our own observations of how stepson reacts/behaves.  More and more, we are convinced that medicating isn't the FIX for what's going on with him.  Frankly speaking, both my husband and I feel that ex-wife's household does not have the structure, routine and guidance he needs.  He barely passed the 7th grade!  I can go on and on about that but I shall leave it be.  One time, ex-wife called husband about an article she read on msnbc.com about the dangers of Strattera (duh) and she now wanted stepson off the medication.  Dad was relieved, of course.  

Then, earlier this year, ex-wife called my husband about my stepson misbehaving.  She was hysterical and crying on the phone.  She also asked husband if stepson can live with us.  Husband calmed her down and told her that he would love that; however, this is a decision that can't be made under such emotions and that she needed to calm down and discuss this with her husband, too.  Then, all parents, including stepparents, should come together and go from there.  Furthermore, husband got on stepson's case and made him realize that his behavior towards his mother (or any adult for that matter) is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.  In short, husband helped smoothe things over between stepson and ex-wife.  Stepson apologized to Mom and there was peace again in her household.

She then took stepson to a psychiatrist for counseling right after that incident.  According to her, the psychiatrist does not think it would be a good idea to let stepson live with Dad because it would ruin her relationship with him.  Ok. Whatever.  Dad didn't push the issue and trusted that stepson seeing a psychiatrist would be beneficial and a step in the right direction.  We would have loved for stepson to live with us but we know that it will be a difficult custody battle for many reasons and especially since husband is on active military duty.  Ex-wife never volunteered to give husband the psychiatrist contact info until he asked.  He also asked ex-wife when can he join them in stepson's sessions with the psychiatrist.  Ex-wife told him that the psychiatrist wants to get more progress with stepson prior to Dad joining them.  A bunch of bull if you ask me but that's where it ended.  Ex-wife also put stepson back on Strattera because that's what the psychiatrist told her to do.  Dad disagrees but what could he really do?  We are not doctors after all.  Ex-wife did say that the psychiatrist's objective is to eventually take stepson off of Strattera.

Forward to the present.  Stepson is with us for the summer.  He had a terrible outburst to where he cussed me up and down and caused destruction in the living room knocking down bar stools and almost flipping the couch over.  The whole thing started when I tried to stop him from antagonizing our pet dog and his sister.  Dad wasn't home at the time.  Anyway, he then proceeded to his room and caused more chaos there by pulling out his drawers and leaving them all over the room.  After all of that, he stormed out of the house.  Dad finally came home and we talked about what happened.  Stepson never left the subdivision and was found just walking along.  

Dad discussed what happened with ex-wife.  Her first question was whether stepson has been taking his medication.  Dad was flabbergasted because, in the past, she took stepson off medication every summer.  She said she packed it in one of the kids' bags but it was nowhere to be found.  It turned out that she had it in her house all along.  She was also out on vacation so we suspect stepson hasn't been taking his medication for over 2 weeks prior to the incident happening.  Anyway, instead of helping smoothe things over too, she talked to stepson and assured him that he can come "home" any time he wants.  She told husband that the kids have always had a hard time dealing with his new kids that's why they're acting up, blah, blah, blah.  She's always making excuses!!!! Grrrr!  We know and see how the all the kids interact and they do love each other a lot.  I'm guessing she's the one having a hard time dealing with the fact that husband moved on, remarried and had other kids.  That's her problem and not ours.

Because of the incident, husband and I decided that we ourselves need to seek counseling with stepson.  It is long overdue if you ask me.  Dad trusted ex-wife that she will do the right thing by stepson and include Dad but that didn't happen at all.  So, it is time for us to seek help ourselves and help stepson overcome what he needs to overcome.  We should have done this a long time ago but we are now doing it.  We look at this as a learning and bonding opportunity for us all.  We love our stepson and don't want him to go down the wrong path.  He has a lot of anger in him and is now exhibiting aggressive, violent behavior.  I don't think we should wait until his mother decides to work with Dad.   It is apparent that she has no intention of doing that.  When husband told ex-wife that he's taking stepson to counseling, she hit the roof.  Instead of looking at it positively, she probably took it as a slap.  She told husband that he didn't need to do that because she's already taken stepson to a psychiatrist.  My guess is that it's a control thing all along with her.  Husband is finally fed off and now taking action and, in her mind, she's losing control.  How SAD!!!!!

Sorry for the length but I want to know your opinion on this.  Is it so wrong for us to seek counseling for and with stepson ourselves?  Our intent is not to disrupt his treatment (if one does exist) where he lives.  In fact, we are going to give our psychiatrist the contact info of his psychiatrist so that the professionals can work towards a unified treatment.  We don't even know how often stepson sees his "psychiatrist".  We have no control over what she does but we do have control over what we do with stepson whenever he's with us.  So, this way, we can be sure that he's getting the help that he needs on our terms and not hers.

Thank you for your input.

[BelleMere]

and get input and a summary of the treatment plan, diganosis and other observations from him, first. It sounds like your DH hasn't talked to that doc, but he really should before doing anything else. I think you also need to know what you want from counseling. Counsellors can't provide a magic bullet, even tho we often go to them with that hope in mind. What your SS most likely needs is firm consistent parental guidance and unfortunately what will happen when he enounters that initially is he will freak out and try to buck the system. So you could go with counselling, or you could just sit down with him and write down a list of problem behaviors (yelling at adults, cussing, tormenting the pet, tormenting siblings, walking out of the house without telling you where he is going) and what the consequences will be (for boys, physical activities like push ups or chores can be very effective) and then whenever soemthing comes up, just tell him to go do what it says on the wall (or wherever you post it) and walk away. Don't engage, just implement the consequence. Or, really, in your situation, your DH has to be the one willing to be doing that every day when he gets home.

Most therapists won't see a child if there is another therapist in the mix already - they like to know "who is on first". I feel for you that you've been handed this out of control kid and Mom won't take responsibility. We had similar problems back in the day (SS was never ADHD, but she also insisted on that diagnosis - in reality, I think it was anxiety that caused most of his problems)

[4honor]

You must be very vigilant while your SS is coming off the medications. We have had problems with SS when he was coming down from Ritalin, adderal and strattera. He is violent on the meds, but has an extreme reaction as he was coming down from them and was psychotic as well. SS has not taken meds in our home (BM's choice) in the past 6 years.

There are a number of conditions (psychological and physiological) that have symptoms similar to ADD/ADHD. SS was diagnosed 4 years ago with a visual disorder that mimics 11 of 12 symptoms. BM finally accepted the diagnosis, but refuses to let loose of the ADHD diagnosis and the medications SS gets for it.

Stattera is a time release version of Adderal. This drug was developed to make soldiers better warriors and more compliant in a command structure. It makes them zombie fighters... violence, anger, adrenaline rush are all part of the "desired" side effects of the medication.

I suggest a book called The Hyperactivity Hoax by Sydney Walker III. It is a book on helping you help your child's doctors to get a real diagnosis ofthe underlying causes of the behaviors he is exibiting. The medications used to treat ADHD can and do exacerbate many of the underlying causes of hyperactive and inattentive behaviors. A hole in the heart can cause many ADHD behaviors. The drugs used to treat ADHD can cause heart attack in these misdiagnosed children. Your DH must become an advocate for your child's health. Medication may be what is needed, but not without a work-up to rule out other conditions first.

[kaylene99]

We had a family meeting with SS last night about rules, punishments, expectations, discipline, behavior and counseling.  It turned out better than we had expected.  We found out from SS that he hasn't seen the psychiatrist his mother took him to see in a long time now.  He also mentioned that this psychiatrist prescribed him another medication to take along with Strattera.  He didn't remember the name of the medication but said that he read the bottle and saw the word "seizure" on it.  Ex-wife never informed DH about this at all or the fact that SS hasn't seen the psychiatrist and is obviously not in an active treatment plan.  No wonder she flipped out when DH told her that we are taking SS to counseling ourselves.

As for Strattera, SS said that he hasn't taken that in a while either.  He said that his mother didn't tell him to take it so he hasn't been taking it.  I just can't believe that this woman would put him OFF AND ON on this medication with no regard to what it's doing to SS!!!!  I am so mad I can slap her!  I won't because I am a better person than that.  It's just so sad what she's doing to her own son.

So, we now know SS hasn't taken Strattera for a while.  Meanwhile, ex-wife sent a message to DH asking what address to send SS's medication to.  Where else!?!?!??!  It's not like she doesn't know our home address.  We've been in the same address for the past 4 years!  She even sent postcards to the kids just recently. GRRRRR!!  Well, apparently, she said someone needs to be home to receive the medication because, if it stays in the heat, it loses its potency or effectiveness.  WELL, HOW EFFECTIVE CAN IT BE WHEN SS HASN'T REALLY BEEN TAKING IT ANYWAY????  She's so irresponsible and neglectful!!!  I am so mad at all of this.  DH is beyond angry himself.

I wonder how can we hold this woman accountable for her neglect.  We know we can't control her actions or inactions but there's gotta be a way to send a strong message that "THE WORLD IS WATCHING WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO YOUR OWN KIDS!".  She's very manipulative and will have you thinking she's the best mom in the world.  She's all about lip service and the pony show.   She never follows through anything she says and is a pathological liar!  GRRR!

Ok, I'm done venting for now.  Thanks for reading and please share your thoughts and ideas on how to best handle this.

[BelleMere]

First off, I would NOT just put him back on the meds without a psych evaluation that you all agree with. So if you don't talk to the psychiatrist who prescribed it and tell him all the details, including that SS hasn't been on it regularly, then start fresh with someone new, but don't just give him the meds when they arrive. It is worse to yank him on and off, as you know already, than just to leave him off the meds entirely.

I think that you guys have a great way of communicating with SS and that's a real plus - he seems to be very open with you even with whatever emotional turmoil he lives in. His age is always difficult but I think the best approach with him - based on what you've posted, anyway - is to stress that you know he can control his behavior and his words, and you expect him to do so without a pill, according to the rules of your house. Most kids don't like the idea of having something so wrong with them that they have to take a pill, so it's possible that if you tell him this is his chance to prove he can hold it together without meds - at least for a summer visit - that will help everyone in the long run.

I know how aggravating this can be and there really is not a lot you can do, other than talk to the psychiatrist and maybe get a phone conference with him and your DH and BM to discuss the treatment plan and continuity, or lack thereof. Depending on the outcome of that conversation or other research you do on the dangers of inconsistent psych med use, you could send a certified letter to BM letting her know the information and that if you have to, you will pursue her for medical neglect and endangering his wellbeing (if you find out that there could be serious consequences.) Our BM was a lot like this too - kind of weird about how SS was to take his ADHD meds. One of my favorite choices on her part, which we didn't find out about until SS lived with us, was giving him extra Aderall pills if he refused to clean up his room fast enough - like the more pills he took, the more likely he was to do what she asked (her theory, but all it did was breed a kind of passive aggressive pigheadedness in the boy - and a bad acid stomach, as that was the side effect of the drugs for him all those years).

[kaylene99]

Thanks, BelleMere.  This is really beyond aggravating for us.  I feel for my SS and sometimes I wish I am his real mother so he can be nurtured the way he's supposed to be nurtured.  As his stepmom, I try my best but continuity is hard to accomplish when he's not living with us.  I feel that all the good things we do just get unraveled the second they step in their mother's house.  Truly sad. :-(

Yes, I agree with you on not putting him back on the meds.  DH feels the same way which is why he's not jumping on getting the meds from BM especially due to what we found out from SS last night.  DH also wants to start fresh with a new psychiatrist and hear firsthand what's going on and where can we go from there.  I doubt that BM will be cooperative with what the new psychiatrist's recommendation or treatment plan for no other reason than WE sought it and therefore she doesn't approve of it.  I don't know what we will do then especially since SS doesn't live with us.  What I am thinking of is asking the new psychiatrist to contact the old psychiatrist for the purpose of sharing notes and coming up with a unified treatment plan.  I have no experience with this but I hope this can be done and continuity can be somewhat assured.  I say "somewhat" because all the doctors or professionals in the world can recommend this and that but if the mother is too stupid enough not to follow through then the benefits will never be reaped.  After all, she is the expert on everything.  You can't tell her anything she doesn't already know.  Who knows though -- maybe she will feel threatened by our involvement and decide to do the right thing just to show us she's still in control.  We'll see!!!

That's too bad about your SS having to take extra Adderall (sp?) pills.  GRRR!  I would be very upset myself.  In our case, we found out from the kids that their mother says stuff like "You need to take your chill pill now."  What a parent, huh?

Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts.  I truly appreciate it.

[lucky]

I have to chime in here as my ds has been on the whole gamut of ADHD drugs.

Strattera is not the time release version of Adderal.  That is Adderal XR (extended release).

Strattera was originally formulated to be an anti-depressant until studies or whatever showed that it did well in alleviating ADHD symptoms.  This means that the studies that show issues in children and teens who take anti-depressants should be aware that those issues can show up in kids who take Straterra.

If I remember correctly, Kitty C's son was in on the trials (or they'd tried to get in on them) of Strattera and they'd tried just about everything there was also.  She may know more, but I know she'd also gone on to alternative methods.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[notnew]

How many stories have we seen of teens doing sometimes awful things and finding out they were on Antidepressents?  Has stupid BM thought for ONE FRICKING moment to READ the print out on the meds she is feeding this kid and SEEING that sometimes these drugs have adverse reactions and cause kids to be possibly violent, suicidal, etc.?

Since Dad knows the psych. the boy is seeing, he should go to him/her immediately with these issues. He has summer visitation and kid CANNOT go back whenever he feels like it. This issue must be faced.
The only way dad can know what the "counselor" is saying is by finding out himself. Obviously, BM is about control and NOT about what is best for the kid.

Kaylene, you and I have talked about this before. I remember you, but possibly while I was posting under another name and I cannot reveal now due to lurking possibility.

I cannot remember custody situation. If BM is supposed to keep dad informed, she is in contempt. This situation is approaching dangerous levels and needs to be addressed NOW before the cops are involved or worse and if dad needs to drag her to the table, then so be it.

I HATE this crap. I have a child on Adderall for many years now. 30 mg. XR and 5 mg. EVERY DAY for a few months, then 20 MG, no 5 mg., then next month the higher dose again. NOT EVEN A PSYCH involved! Just the pediatrician! Why the change in dose? When I PAID to meet with the "doctor" earlier this year she admitted it was an oversight on her part, just a mistake. HEY - THIS IS AN ADDICTIVE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE DUMBA$$. I think she is afraid now that I'm going for custody mod that she's put her foot in her mouth and you betcha if I get custody, I will be pursuing a formal complaint.

Dont' get me wrong, I know there are people with ADD/HD who need treatment - but TOO many are using it for the wrong reasons and it is damaging our children!

Kaylene, if I were you, I'd be urging your husband to make an appt. with the psych today and file court papers tomorrow.

Sorry for being so harsh. This is just one of those things with me that pushes me into the stratosphere of intolerance!

Good luck and we are all praying for the best outcome for everyone.

[notnew]

See my response above. If I were you, I would not give the meds. You and I both know that these types of meds have to be given regularly and consistently to be effective. Personally, neither one of them have credibility (ss or BM) so who can you really believe? Nobody. That is why I say even stronger now to call the psych. personally and file court papers over this.

I won't say what I think about the type of mother and person she is. It is not fit for posting. We all know what it is without saying or typing it.

It's just disgusting.

[kaylene99]

I know that this is the one place that we can get support and real advice drawn from real experience.  I really appreciate it, you guys.

Ex-wife sent an email to DH and now claims that DH is avoiding her and the kids don't feel comfortable talking because they are being monitored and put on speaker (puhhhhleeezzeee!!!).  Of course, she still hasn't sent the meds because she didn't want it to be left at the mailbox.  She's making this very complicated than it needs to be.  DH emailed her back and suggested that perhaps she should send it via registered mail where someone needs to be home to sign it OR it needs to be picked up from the post office.  No kidding!!!!  How come some people just have no common sense?  DH also touched on a lot of things especially her demands to speak to the kids daily while they are with us.  She's never forbidden to call the kids and vice versa so I don't understand the demand.  We make the kids call her while they are with us which is far more than she's ever done for DH.  DH asked her to use good judgment when calling because the kids are in bed by 9:30p.  DH has always respected her household and whatever time she told for DH to call.  More importantly, speaking with them for hours on end while they are here would be really disruptive and takes away time for them to bond with Dad and vice versa.  A normal, sane and truly loving mother would understand that!!!  But, would you believe she called last night at 11:00p and cited DH's email???  Obviously, she has no consideration or respect whatsoever towards DH and our household.

As for the meds, DH asked if taking it continuously is really what the doctor ordered or what Dr. EX-WIFE (I love that part) ordered.  He even asked if there really is an active treatment plan for SS since no claims have been filed under DH's medical insurance (he covers kids 100%).  Understandably, DH just wants to start fresh with a new psychiatrist.  We already have an appointment next week.  We'll go from there and try to schedule a regular visit whenever we have the kids with us.  

Thanks again for your support.  DH did ask ex-wife to share SS's treatment plan so we'll see if she does share.  Somehow, I doubt it.