Update on BMmoving out of state- had our 1st court appearance

[KathyNY]

Okay.  Thanks for the info.  We are trying to prepare ourselves for every outcome.  BM has asked my FH to come to "an agreement" and he told her again yesterday that he will not let the kids go.  She's not thrilled, but what did she expect?

Your message scares me, but we have no choice but to leave it up to the courts.  I can research and read about it all I want, but there are just as many cases that let the moms go as there are those that rule for the kids to stay.  You just don't know until it's your day in court.  It's terrifying.  

We're trying to be the "bigger person" in the deal- we're not shoving the not wanting the kids to move down their throats, like BM is the move.  All she has them talking about is how great their new "apartment" is going to be (they're 4 & 5 and have no idea how much it's going to suck going from the big house w/ the big yard & pool they're used to, to a tiny 3 bedroom apartment), and now they're saying they're "sad" they're not moving yet.  Straight from BM's mouth I'm sure.  When they bring it up we just tell them we're glad we get to spend extra time with them, and leave it at that.  

On a lighter note, the kids think it's funny to call their dad by his first name (they've always called me Kathy) and we've told them before what my last name is.  Their last night is hyphenated (sp?) with BM's maiden name & dad's last name (dad's idea- BM has older daughter who has BM's last name, so when they married BM hyphenated her name and when kids were born, my FH suggested they hyphenate their names too so their sister wouldn't be the only one with the other name).

Anyway, I think the kids could tell by the murderous look in my eyes that it was a sore spot w/me not to call me Kathy (hypenated last name) so they do it to be silly.  Now that they know we're getting married they'll call me Kathy (daddy's last name) so this weekend we were practicing w/ the 5yo spelling his last name for kindergarten and I asked him what my name will be when we get married and he said "Mom."  I almost cried.  His sister said "We already have a mom.  She's Kathy.  Her name would be Kathy (dad's last name)" and SS replied "I know, she'll be our other mom."  So I explained to them again about stepparents, how their dad is their sister's stepfather and how BM's fiance will be their stepdad next year too.  But I was so full of joy inside!

[Kent]

You can be "the bigger person" as much as you want to. but keep in mind that 4 and 5 year olds are extremely easy to influence.
They do not think for themselves and believe everything they hear.

If you don't tell them what is really going on, and what the difference is between a big house with yard and pool, and a 3br appartment, then the only thing they hear is what BM says. Since you don't contradict, whatever BM says must be true.

It is a tough call to make; do you get the children involved in the psychological warfare, or do you accept them seeing you as the bad guy?

But keep in mind; BM is already involving them in the psych. warfare.

When my son was 4, and 5, and 6, my ex told my our son all sorts of lies about me (I was abusive, I cheated, I was bad, I was lazy, I was stupid, etc. etc.). I never contradicted.
Even though I was his primary caregiver, and gave up everything to be with him, he believed her, and started to grow distant.
I made the choice (together with my new wife, who is a child psychologist) to respond to every remark he made, and show him what was really going on. At first he didn't believe me, but after about a year he noticed that I never lied to him, and his mom did (and still does).
Another year later, he started to see things for himself. Now that he's almost 11, he fits the pieces together, and figures out for himself what's true and what's not. I don't even have to point it out to him anymore.

He can't wait to be 14, so he can petition the courts to live with me full time (his words).

Kent!

[KathyNY]

Okay, maybe I wasn't completely honest (sheepish look here).  I have, on occasion, been unable to refrain from making comments when the kids talk about the move, especially when they're "so excited," despite their dad not wanting me to talk about it with them.

Usually I just say something like "an apartment is REALLY small and you won't have your own back yard with your pool anymore" or "You're going to miss the Fair!"  ("The Great New York State Fair" that's a huge 10 day event here, and my FH works next door so we get free parking, and usually free tickets and the kids look forward to it all year round- cuz they think daddy works AT the fair!)

At times I know I've not made the most mature decision with my remarks but it's my emotions taking over.  I hate that BM can have all the control over what they're thinking about this whole situation.  We have agreed not to badmouth BM, but obviously she doesn't feel the same (she's ALWAYS said bad things about me in front of the kids) but SS has already come and told us "Mom says Dad lied about that guy."  I'm assuming he meant the lawyer because this was right after she was served with the papers, when she thought we weren't fighting her on the move.

You're very lucky that your wife is a child psychologist- that is what I wanted to major in, but not got that far.  Congrats to her on that, and to the both of you for taking the right steps with your son.  I'm glad it worked out for your family.

Thanks for the advice.

[Mamacass]

hey, I may have responded to you before.  We're in VA and going through a similar "battle."  BM is planning on moving to NC where her boyfriend is moving and she doesn't work.  Our first court date is 8/30, and we are nervous b/c you just don't know what will happen in court.  We have a pretty good case, but nothing is guaranteed.  
We agreed earlier this month at my stepson's therapy appointment not to discuss the possible move with him until a final decision was made.  At the time she told us she would like to move and take him with her, but wanted to know our thoughts.  At the time we told her that we didn't like the idea, and suggested he remain in VA with us.  2 days later she called at bedtime to say goodnight to my SS (we have him for the summer) and she told him then that they were moving to NC.  She said she didn't intend to tell him then, it just came up.  Why she would bring up the move late at night over the phone when there wasn't time to really discuss it, I'll never know.  When he got off the phone, he was upset, especially when he realized that NO ONE else in his family was moving- not his grandparents on any side, aunt's or uncles or his dad, stepmom and brother and baby that's due any day now.  We told him at the time that nothing was final yet, and there would be some changes but we would let him know as soon as we knew, and he could always talk to us about anything.  
2 days after that BM informed us that it wasn't really a discussion, b/c she was definitely moving and SS was going with her, no compromise.  Although for the past year we have had ss almost every weekend, and sometimes for  a day or 2 during the week, she is planning to cut us back to standard visitation as it is currently set up through the courts.  
Everytime she has talked to SS since then, she brings up the move and tells him how great its gonna be and what there house is going to be like.  We're left in the same position as to whether to contradict her or not.  I don't want him to feel put in the middle, and its not his decision, so I don't feel the need to try to "get him on our side."  However, if we win our case I do want him to be prepared for the fact that he would more than likely be living with us while Mommy is in NC.  It's a tough position to be in, b/c the last thing I want to do is stress him out, or make him feel like he's in the middle.  
Hope you don't mind if I rant for a sec, but it pisses me off that she can't act like an adult.  I think th reason she's trying to convince him that this move is such a great thing is b/c it makes her feel better.  It's like she thinks she's won something if she can convince him to take her side.  If only she could grow up and realize that he doesn't get to make the decision and the judge is the one that she needs to convince.  This is just one more time that she's put her own wants and needs ahead of his.  In a way I'm glad that he's too young to see how his mom really is, but there is a part of me that can't wait till he's old enough to see through all her mind games.  This is actually mild compared to some of the other things she's told him in the past, but it still sucks.  It's so frustrating when we're trying to do the right thing and be as supportive as we can for him, and all she wants to do is make thinks more difficult.  

[Mamacass]

hey, I may have responded to you before.  We're in VA and going through a similar "battle."  BM is planning on moving to NC where her boyfriend is moving and she doesn't work.  Our first court date is 8/30, and we are nervous b/c you just don't know what will happen in court.  We have a pretty good case, but nothing is guaranteed.  
We agreed earlier this month at my stepson's therapy appointment not to discuss the possible move with him until a final decision was made.  At the time she told us she would like to move and take him with her, but wanted to know our thoughts.  At the time we told her that we didn't like the idea, and suggested he remain in VA with us.  2 days later she called at bedtime to say goodnight to my SS (we have him for the summer) and she told him then that they were moving to NC.  She said she didn't intend to tell him then, it just came up.  Why she would bring up the move late at night over the phone when there wasn't time to really discuss it, I'll never know.  When he got off the phone, he was upset, especially when he realized that NO ONE else in his family was moving- not his grandparents on any side, aunt's or uncles or his dad, stepmom and brother and baby that's due any day now.  We told him at the time that nothing was final yet, and there would be some changes but we would let him know as soon as we knew, and he could always talk to us about anything.  
2 days after that BM informed us that it wasn't really a discussion, b/c she was definitely moving and SS was going with her, no compromise.  Although for the past year we have had ss almost every weekend, and sometimes for  a day or 2 during the week, she is planning to cut us back to standard visitation as it is currently set up through the courts.  
Everytime she has talked to SS since then, she brings up the move and tells him how great its gonna be and what there house is going to be like.  We're left in the same position as to whether to contradict her or not.  I don't want him to feel put in the middle, and its not his decision, so I don't feel the need to try to "get him on our side."  However, if we win our case I do want him to be prepared for the fact that he would more than likely be living with us while Mommy is in NC.  It's a tough position to be in, b/c the last thing I want to do is stress him out, or make him feel like he's in the middle.  
Hope you don't mind if I rant for a sec, but it pisses me off that she can't act like an adult.  I think th reason she's trying to convince him that this move is such a great thing is b/c it makes her feel better.  It's like she thinks she's won something if she can convince him to take her side.  If only she could grow up and realize that he doesn't get to make the decision and the judge is the one that she needs to convince.  This is just one more time that she's put her own wants and needs ahead of his.  In a way I'm glad that he's too young to see how his mom really is, but there is a part of me that can't wait till he's old enough to see through all her mind games.  This is actually mild compared to some of the other things she's told him in the past, but it still sucks.  It's so frustrating when we're trying to do the right thing and be as supportive as we can for him, and all she wants to do is make thinks more difficult.  

[KathyNY]

...completely.  BM is not acting like the grown-up here.  It's not fair to the kids.  She told my FH that she made this choice for the kids.  He told her that if she really wanted what was best for the kids, she wouldn't be trying to take them away from their father!  I have a feeling she thinks her fiance is going to be able to replace daddy with no problem.  Not happening!  

I think the saddest part in our situation is that BM's 10 yo daughter doesn't seem to understand the move better than the little ones.  My skids are 4 & 5 and they understand that it will take daddy a whole day to drive to their new house, that they won't see him for a long time, only get to talk to him on the phone, and they won't get to see their grandpa or their cousins.  Yeah, they're excited about the "new apartment" (they don't even know what an "apartment" is) and BM has them hyped up about the water park near their new house, but they do tell us when they're at our house that they're sad they'll have to leave and how much they're going to miss daddy- AND me.

But BM's 10 yo has hardly expressed feelings or emotions on the subject.  She told her dad on the phone that she was excited, that BM showed her pictures from her camera phone, and when her dad explained about the distance and not seeing the family, the 10 yo took a moment for it to sink in.  He says she was quite for a bit, said she seemed sad when she realized she wouldn't see her family or her dad much, but ever since then she's been either excited about it or withdrawn.  

We haven't had any contact with her in months- she won't come over to our house even though my FH raised her like his own.  BM says she's being very standoffish to everyone.  I'm wondering if maybe the 10 yo really HAS figured out that this move is NOT a great idea but is afraid to voice that to her mother (who has brainwashed this kid from day one to be against everyone else, to hate whoever BM hates).  I bet the girl is withdrawn because she doesn't want to move but has to pretend she does cuz she doesn't want to upset her mom.  I can't WAIT until she has to go see a law guardian (hopefully later this month).  Maybe this is what's going on and that will help both of our cases immensly (sp?)

Good luck with your case!

[Kent]

...and you will make mistakes and say the wrong things. But as time goes by, you will find it becoming increasingly easy to keep the children informed.

When the child says: "Mom says Dad lied about that guy.", there is no need to bash BM.
BUT you do need to tell them that Dad did NOT lie, but that Dad said xyz, and because of abc (or because of what BM is doing), xyz IS the truth, and they should know that.
If that makes a liar out of BM, then so be it. The kids should see her for what she is. If BM doesn't like that, then she shouldn't lie.

Also, if BM says anything bad about DH or you to the kids, tell them that that is not true, and that BM only says that so the children won't like DH or you anymore.
And if she does it to you in front of the kids, turn to the kids, and say the same thing. Especially if you have proof to show the children shortly after, call her a liar right then and there.

Kent!

[KathyNY]

...and none of us have heard from her since.  That's not necessarily a good thing.  She's the type to call and scream and threaten.  When I had my friend serve BM our petition (temporary order keeping the kids in the state until the courts rule for good), she was on the phone w/ my FH w/in minutes!  

Maybe BM's realizing that she's fighting a losing battle, or maybe she's preparing for battle!  Who knows?

[Genie]

for you guys.... you never know.  But they could also look at it as 2 separate cases.  Your SKs are so young.  I can see them wanting to keep them with BM.   Her other child must be older (don't know how old).  This work in her Dad's favor.  

Wonder if you can get both heard at same time?  If that would be to your advantage or not.  Could be worse for you also.

It is hard I know.  My X's BM moved the kids 2 hours from us and that was bad enough.  Not far enough that we couldn't get them regularly (when she wasn't messing with his visitation) but far enough that it shut us out of their everyday life and what was going on.  Far enough that when SD got older she didn't want to come b/c of her social life and BM made things impossible for us.

You never know what will happen.  Please keep us posted.  When is your next court date? When is his?

[KathyNY]

I won't send you down to my original post w/ the info, I'll give you a brief overview here.  BM has a 10yo from a prior relationship, and a 4 & 5yo w/ my FH.  

Our cases WILL be heard separetely, but by the same lawyer.  He doesn't want them connected, and says that her having another child whose father is also fighting has nothing to do w/the law and BM trying to diminish contact between my skids and their dad, which is true.

BM is trying to move out of state, 760 miles away- an 11 hour drive.  

I just got an update on the situation- not good news to me.  I'm starting a separate post...