venting - I just dont get it

[wysiwyg]

We are in court Wednesday, becasue BM is PO'd and claims "failure/refusal" to pay CS.  The facts, BF got a new job and waited 2 pay periods to see if the withholding order would go back into effect, when it hadn't BF paid all Support in full and current and remains so.  She claimes she was without for 6 weeks, the facts again: she got all money 2 weeks PRIOR to her filing and was paid ahead at the time BF changed jobs.  No malice at all on BF part, we expected to continue on as we had for the previous 5 years with a WH order.

BM gets held in contempt and ordered to pay our attorney's fees within 90 days or an immediate judgement in favor of our attorney firm will result.  Guess what?  She never paid it all and got the judgement, got a court date to show up for wage with holding, and she nor her attorney show up!  Got another court date in fall, but she now says if we FORGIVE her failure to pay her arrears, she will drop the CS petion!  So she wants us to over ride a judges order and forgive her and allow her to not pay the outstanding attorney's fees that the court ordered her to pay, her failure to show up in court and in the mean time we have 3-4 more billable hours in preparation and court time that she wants to not have to pay?  Who is the one at fault here?  What was willful?  Additionally BM has several other actions against her for failure to pay her Credit cards and once she was backed into a corner she pays them in full at the last minute, the last one was in excess of 10K after her filing on us that she "can not afford to bring the action to court "and asked the court to award her attroney's fees.  Again, the facts, claims she is poverty stricken, gets CS routinly and pays off a debt in excess of 10K after she files............

Thanks for letting me vent.............I hope the court system can see through this BS when we go to court.

[williaer]

Good luck- it sounds like you have an iron clad case. I wouldn't budge an inch on the fees or anthing else...stand strong- rest on the facts and let BM suffer the consequenses.

[Bolivar]

Below is a commentary from Canada I thought this was a very interesting. As a quick note I feel the laws on the books are not as big of a problem as the cultural bias in applying them. We as fathers must educate our fellow dads to there importance in nurturing and raising children.

CJ gave me some feedback on a commercial I was involved with concerning fathers. (hope you don't mind me sharing CJ, but I feel your insight are enlightening)

----------------------------------------------------

I think people react negatively to negative commercials. I believe they would have been far better off having several children, not just one, telling what a great life they have being raised by their fathers, and then having a professional announcer list some facts about children who are raised with fathers in their life vs. those who aren't.

Off the top of my head example commercial;

(different children talking)
"Thanks for helping me study dad."
"When I grow up I want to be an engineer like my dad."
"My dad picks me up from school every day."
"My dad is the best cook in the world!"
" My dad"
"My dad"
"My dad."

(announcer's voice) Did you know that more than 2 million children are raised by single fathers? When father's are involved in a child' life they are more likely to receive A's, enjoy school, participate in extracurricular activities, and stay away from drugs and alcohol. Adolescent girls with the guidance of fathers are 3 times less likely to engage in sexual relations by the time they turn 15, and 5 times less likely to become teenage mothers. It's time we return fathers to our homes where they belong. Call your congressman today and demand equal rights for fathers.

Being a father needs to be turned into a positive thing......

.... The world needs to see real fathers. The world needs to feel comfortable knowing children are being raised by intelligent people. .... We need to show the world we are responsible parents and we aren't clowns or people who need pity.

- CJ

----------------------------------------------------

[font size=+2]Sins of the mother[/font]

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=275509bd-926a-49c6-878b-1f15751a5c35
Barbara Kay
National Post
Wednesday, October 11, 2006


"..... (again no jail time -- has any murdering mom ever done jail time in Canada? )."

......... .................

"When fathers kill, society holds them completely responsible. In a way, this is a backhanded compliment. They are assumed to be full-fledged moral agents acting from a willed choice."

......... .................

"In the default absolution of women from responsibility for violence, however, we see the soft bigotry of low expectations, and a kind of infantilization process, which presents in the form of familiar excuses. Friends and relatives, women's groups and sympathetic media all declare the tragedy a result of post-partum depression, the ravages of a custody battle or other uncontrollable factors."

......... .................

".........there is no question that in any single one of these(killings) and all other such cases, if the father were the killer, the outcomes would have been very different."

......... .................

"As a rule, then, when fathers kill their children, it is usually in spite of the system's efforts to protect children, for both alleged and real warning signs by men are taken seriously.

But when mothers kill , it is usually because the system willfully ignored obvious warning signs --

-- or even, as may be the case in the Campione affair --

-- actively colluded with a disturbed mother in isolating the children from a stable and engaged father."


......... .................


"So these tragedies don't happen because caseloads are too heavy, as CAS workers often plead, or because they are stupid.
[font size=+2] The culprit, in short, is cultural bias.[/font] "

[Jade]

>We are in court Wednesday, becasue BM is PO'd and claims
>"failure/refusal" to pay CS.  The facts, BF got a new job and
>waited 2 pay periods to see if the withholding order would go
>back into effect, when it hadn't BF paid all Support in full
>and current and remains so.  She claimes she was without for 6
>weeks, the facts again: she got all money 2 weeks PRIOR to her
>filing and was paid ahead at the time BF changed jobs.  No
>malice at all on BF part, we expected to continue on as we had
>for the previous 5 years with a WH order.
>
>BM gets held in contempt and ordered to pay our attorney's
>fees within 90 days or an immediate judgement in favor of our
>attorney firm will result.  Guess what?  She never paid it all
>and got the judgement, got a court date to show up for wage
>with holding, and she nor her attorney show up!  Got another
>court date in fall, but she now says if we FORGIVE her failure
>to pay her arrears, she will drop the CS petion!  So she wants
>us to over ride a judges order and forgive her and allow her
>to not pay the outstanding attorney's fees that the court
>ordered her to pay, her failure to show up in court and in the
>mean time we have 3-4 more billable hours in preparation and
>court time that she wants to not have to pay?  Who is the one
>at fault here?  What was willful?  Additionally BM has several
>other actions against her for failure to pay her Credit cards
>and once she was backed into a corner she pays them in full at
>the last minute, the last one was in excess of 10K after her
>filing on us that she "can not afford to bring the action to
>court "and asked the court to award her attroney's fees.
>Again, the facts, claims she is poverty stricken, gets CS
>routinly and pays off a debt in excess of 10K after she
>files............
>
>Thanks for letting me vent.............I hope the court system
>can see through this BS when we go to court.
>
>

First, the ncp was wrong for not immediately sending in the child support payments when he saw that it wasn't taken out of his check.  He should not have waited for 2 pay periods.  

Second, who did he send the payments to?  The mother or the probation department (or whatever agency handles the collection of child support)?  If there is a question as to the mother's honesty, always send the payment in to the agency.  And if you do give it directly to the mother, get a receipt.  

Although a receipt really doesn't mean anything.  I gave my ex one and the probation dept. sent me a form that I had to sign and have notarized stating that I did receive the payment.  I don't know what they would have done had I refused to do that as I signed it and sent it back.  

[jilly]

*First, the ncp was wrong for not immediately sending in the
child support payments when he saw that it wasn't taken out of
his check. He should not have waited for 2 pay periods. *

Maybe you're not aware of this but it sometimes takes a couple of pay periods before the payroll department starts withholding.  I'd guess that's why he waited until the 2nd paycheck to see if CS was being withheld.  Once he realized it wasn't coming out he did the right thing by paying it immediately.  I think most people would have done the same thing.

[Jade]

>*First, the ncp was wrong for not immediately sending in the
>child support payments when he saw that it wasn't taken out
>of
>his check. He should not have waited for 2 pay periods. *
>
>Maybe you're not aware of this but it sometimes takes a couple
>of pay periods before the payroll department starts
>withholding.  I'd guess that's why he waited until the 2nd
>paycheck to see if CS was being withheld.  Once he realized it
>wasn't coming out he did the right thing by paying it
>immediately.  I think most people would have done the same
>thing.
>

I am very aware that it takes a while to get withholding set up.  My xh had to send in his child support to the probation dept. (which is what most people do so that they don't get in arrears) until it was automatically taken out of his paycheck.  

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine if child support had been taken out of the paycheck and to pay it right away instead of waiting until the second paycheck.  

[wysiwyg]

Jilly is correct, and currently we are still waiting for the IWO (2 months now) to be put into place with payroll.  The company is very large with over 1500 employees.  The last order stated that the previous employer was to notify the Agency of the enployees last day and forward the new employer's information to them, we gave the previous employer all that information but that never reached the agancy.  

However, you need to understand that 2 pay periods is not an unreasonalbe amount of time to wait to see if the order gets put into place, even the judge said it was reasonalbe and also told BM that by the time we were in court not only was the CS paid to date it was "significantly overpaid" and apparently while most mothers would be happy with the fact it was paid, apparently she was not satisfied with it being paid to date nor happy to have been overpaid.  By the way, once we realized after the 2nd pay when CS was not with held, ALL cs wqas paid in full immediately.

I take exception to not paying "immediately" when we noticed the lag, I believe in my heart that we did the right thing and were NEVER more than 3 weeks behind, since at the time of the last pay from previous employer we were overpaid.  Even the STATE CS Attorney told me to not worry since we were doing the right thing.  You ever try and get money back from the CS agency that was paid in advance?  As a matter of fact ask many ncp here if they ever get moneys back that have been overpaid or paid 2 aan 3 times over again because no one in the judicial system can agree with another deparment when it comes to cs payment arrears or overages.  

To bring you further up to date, BM settled all 4 judgements against her and only has 24 more days to pay the current judgement for not paying our attorney's fees for 2 of her 6 contempt actions.  She has further denied several weekends to BF including Fathers day.  Not only does she deny parenting times, she fails to honor the orders to allow BF to make up the time, alas another holdiay is fast approaching adn we lost X mas last year, because as she said, "there is no provision for you to have (child) on Christmas day therefore any trip over her to get (child) will be a wasted trip on yor part as we wil  not be here."  PS the order states that there is a provision dividing up X mas day in half and was stipulated by the judge who also stated he would not even consider altering that provision, but BM leaves us sitting in the driveway on Christmas day while she went out of state and, did not notify us again per the courts orders that she tell us the childs whereabouts at all times when leaving the city.  oh but that is par for the course for her, she was held in contempt for not notifying us of her leaving the state when she left the child at a school function, left for her trip and the only thing we knew was that the childs activity was over at X time and when we went to get the child, the principal showed interest in us getting the child because mom did not list dad as the father on the school records and lo and behold when they called mom she was already in another state.  oh yea and BM got held in contempt X 2 for not naming dad as dad on the schools records, they called it providing the school false information to prohibt dad's involvement.  

So to get back to my original point, I just don't get it..........I am still venting.

[wendl]

Most men pay or attempt to pay cs on time.

Woman need to STOP counting on cs, it won't last forever and learn to work full time as well (sorry if I stepped on anyones toes for this) I am a cp mother and about fall over when I get any cs.  I do not rely on it.

Sometimes things happen, sometimes the ncp get a little behind big deal most of them get caught up===life happens.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[mistoffolees]

Maybe it's just me, but I think 3 weeks is a long time to wait. In many cases, the mother needs this money to support the child (which is, after all, what it's all about).

Personally, if I found that my support payment was not deducted from my paycheck, I'd send it immediately. That seems like the only honorable thing to do.

[wysiwyg]

well three weeks might be a long time to you, but FYI the state does not get involved until CS is 6 weeks late. We were WELL within that.  Judge even told mother that she was unhappy, and vengeful for brining that action, therefore she had to pay her own attorney's fees.