Need help please...

[Ronn]

I am new here and have been reading and decided to register and ask a few questions. Let me also say that I think this forum is a great place for people to get advice from others in the same or that have been through the same situation.
I am on here asking some questions to help my family. I will explain the situation and would really appreciate any advice that any of you may have for me.
My nephew and his wife have been living together for 9 years but only married a very short time. They have 3 children during this relationship. A son age 7 and two daughters age 5,and 4.
The son aged 7 has lived with my parents(the childs great grandparents) ever since he was born. My nephew and his wife were young and lived with my parents when the oldest two children were born and up until the third child was born. At that time my parents(the childrens great grandparents) owned another home next door that they provided for my nephew and his family to move into. The oldest child(boy) never moved out with his parents.
He continued to live in the home of the great grandparents. My nephews wife left him at home on 3-22-07 and asked that the great grandfather take her to school to sign the two girls in because they overslept. The great grandfather had already taken the oldest child that lived with him to school on time that day.
My nephews wife then went into the school and told them she had been abused a week earlier on 3-16-07. My nephew was arrested and taken to jail and she took the kids from school and left with them. She has went to another state where her mother now lives and we haven't had any contact with her or the children since. We obtained the childrens school records and it shows where the were transfered to. We have called her mothers house several times and asked if she has heard from them and that we wanted to know they were ok. She continues to say she has only talked to them once and they said they were ok and she don't know where they are. You could hear the children in the background asking for the phone but she says she don't know where they are.
Can anyone tell me if there is anything that my nephew can do or even my parents since the oldest child has lived his entire life with them as his parents even though they didn't have legal custody?
Is she allowed to just take the children and move them away from the only family and stability they have ever known simply because she wants to. Does the father or great grandparents that have raised the oldest child for 7 years have any options to have the children brought back to their home state so we may see them and make sure they are ok?
We have spoken with a couple of attornyes and have a couple more to speak with because we want the best possible one we can have before we hire one.
Can any of you tell me what we can do legally to get the children back to our state and if there are any charges that can be placed against the mother for leaving the state and not allowing any of us to see or speak to the children.
There have been no custody orders placed on either party since they both lived together and shared custody of the children.
I am sure that she is trying to get everything changed to the state she is in now and get them to give her custody in that state.
Thanks for any help and sorry for the book but wanted to explain the situation as best I could. Again, thanks for any help and advice offered. It is greatly appreciated.

[Jade]

Your nephew needs to file for a divorce and custody, this may force her to come back.   Since she is a legal custodian, she did not break the law by removing the children from the state since there was no court order prohibiting it.  She can't file for divorce where she is until she has established residency.  

[Ronn]

Can she ask for a court out there to give her custody or will the courts here in our home state have jurisdiction?
Also would the father have  a right to go to where the kids are in school and bring them home?

[Jade]

>Can she ask for a court out there to give her custody or will
>the courts here in our home state have jurisdiction?
>Also would the father have  a right to go to where the kids
>are in school and bring them home?

The home state has jurisdiction as long as she has not established residency.

Were any of the kids born before they got married?  Personally, I would go through the court systems to get them back in the state.  Because, whild he can just go and get them (as long as there isn't a restraining order), she can come and get them back.  

[gemini3]

Typically jurisdiction will be determined by where the children have resided for the last 6 months.  

Your nephews wife has stolen his children.  My advice would be to follow the tips found in the SPARC article "What To Do If Your Spouse Snatches Your Children.  You can find it here:  http://deltabravo.net/custody/kidnap.php, or you can go to the articles index and look under "Emergency First Aid".  

Also read this:  http://deltabravo.net/custody/kidnap2.php

There is also a booklet on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's webiste on Family Abduction, that can be downoaded here:\
http://www.ncmec.org/en_US/publications/NC75.pdf

Call the police and file a report immediately.  Hire an attorney with experience in this area, and ask him to file an emergency order for temporary custody.  Do it as quicky as you can.

Good luck.

[Ronn]

I kept getting page cannot be found with this link..http://deltabravo.net/custody/kidnap.php,

I am very interested in reading these tips. Can anyone help me get to this link some other way?
Thanks for all the help everyone and I would still appreciate anything that anyone else has to offer on the situation as well. I feel as if I can't get too much info in this situation.
I did read the other links as well and they were very helpful.

[gemini3]

Go to the SPARC article index, and click the drop-down box for "Emergency First Aid".  It's in that list, I think it's the last article.

Jade is correct, he could go and get them back, but that would only make the situation worse, and make things harder on the kids.  The best course of action is a legal one.  You don't want to engage in a "tug-of-war" with the kids.  I would file for a temporary custody order.  

And get an attorney!  Don't try to do this yourself.  There is also a very good article on hiring and attorney in the SPARC article index.

[Davy]

I believe your previous post was full of excellent advice but I have a problem/concern with the following :

**Jade is correct, he could go and get them back, but that would only **make the situation worse, and make things harder on the kids. The **best course of action is a legal one. You don't want to engage in
** a "tug-of-war" with the kids. I would file for a temporary custody
** order.

This is my reasoning.  Children should be considered at risk or endangered whenever any parent takes children and hides them from the other parent or loved one(s).   Of course no one would want o place children in a "tug-of-war" but a retrieving parent should be considered protecting the children from a criminal kidnapping.

In other words, if a parent takes children and NOTIFIES the other parent within a very reasonable time frame then it is civil.  If the children are hiden and the other parent has no access then it is criminal.  

How can it be said that retrieval would make the situation WORST when no one knows the situation ?

Often when children are located they are or have been in deplorable situations and scarred for life.

Society does not protect children but having said all of this I would NEVER suggest a parent retrieve a child in other than a civilized manner
(PI, law enforcement, etc)  I've seldom heard of an attorney retrieving a child to someone labeled with temporary custody.

I always considered myself 'a parent' and only my children defined me.

I scoffed at CP, NCP, visitation (geesh) ... I certainly did not need a goverment worker to tell me to support my children.

[gemini3]

IMHO neither parent should have the right, barring a court order to the contrary, to deprive the other parent of their children.  I agree that the children should be considered at risk or endangered, however, I feel that the best course of action is a legal one.  If there is no court order for custody there is no criminal kidnapping.  

I say that it would make the situation worse because it may further traumatize the children, and without a court order the mother could just come get the kids again.  Then you're back to square one and in a "tug-of-war".  Law enforcement will not get involved when there is no court order for custody.  

By following legal protocol they will probably be able to get at least temporary custody of the children, and prohibit the mother from coming back and kidnapping them a second time.  Having a court order for custody will allow them to get the assistance of law enforcement agencies in retrieving the child, should that be necessary.  

Again, IMHO, it's best to follow legal process and not let emotions get the best of you.  We all have our feelings about how things **should** work, and all too often they get us in trouble because things don't work that way.  I'm sure the mother has her feelings about how things **should** work as well.  She acted on them, and as a result she will probably not get custody of her children.  Her actions will not speak well of her when the custody matter goes before a judge.  If I was the poster, I wouldn't want to put myself in the same position because I got hot-headed and didn't go through the proper channels, and went down and "took" the kids back.  I would take the matter before a judge.

[Ronn]

Thanks for all the help everyone. We are going to hire a lawyer and take it to court. None of us here want to go and just take the kids back. We don't want them to be put through anymore than they already have. I am sure they were very upset and only hope they have became a little more settled with their situation now.
I do have a few more questions that I would like to see if any of you can shed some light on for us.
I know it is unpredictable but was wondering some opinions. What do you think the chances are that if we get an emergency court hearing here in the home state and she comes back for this that the judge would allow her to then return back to where she is and not give us any custody of the children?
Also could a judge allow her to return to the other state and give us some sort of visition with the kids and how would that work being so far away?
Another question I have would be what if we have an emergency court hearing and she doesn't return here for the court hearing?
One more thing I would like some advice on...One of the children got his arm broken last august at a neighbors house and we were told by the mother that it happened on the trampoline.
The neighbor has since came forward along with another person there and said that it didn't happen that way and thats why her home insurance didn't have to pay any bills. They say the mother twisted the childs arm up behind his back and shoved him out the door to go play outside. they said they couldn't say for sure that is what broke it but he was crying and saying thats hurts mama when she did it and that an hour later his dad came out there and said he had broken it and was gone to the doctor.
I took him to the hospital that night and to several more orthapedic surgeon appointments because the father was working and the child didn't want the mother to take him.
My question is should we have these people at the court hearing to speak on what they saw?
My thoughts are if the mother would do this in front of people here that know her i am worried about what could be happening when she is in a state far away from anyone of us that know her.
Thanks again for the advice you guys  and ladies are great.