divorce papers just filed..questions about a father's rights..help or advice, please.!

[cher bear]

 thank you Lucky, that's really the point I was trying to make to jade. I understand it is a heated issue, and why people look at it as back and white. But what's done is done. We made bad choices along the way, and she did as well.  I am not bashing her or trying to point out all the reasons she failed him as a wife. He obviously failed her as a husband by straying outside the marriage. We have done everything in our power to protect the children since the separation.. we have given her space, and it has been to the detriment of his children i'm sad to say. The kids should not be used as pawns in her game of revenge. If she was willing to be an adult in regards to the children not being subjected to her rage and bad-mouthing of the two of us, I would have no problem with much of what jade is suggesting. I understand his wife's anger towards me, and I don't want to rub it in her face. But how can they adjust later on if all this continues indefinitely.

As for me leaving the home when he has his children, that can't happen as it is my home, and I have 3 children of my own. So, I don't know how he would be able to spend quality time with his kids long term.?

[Jade]

> thank you Lucky, that's really the point I was trying to
>make to jade. I understand it is a heated issue, and why
>people look at it as back and white. But what's done is done.
>We made bad choices along the way, and she did as well.  I am
>not bashing her or trying to point out all the reasons she
>failed him as a wife. He obviously failed her as a husband by
>straying outside the marriage. We have done everything in our
>power to protect the children since the separation.. we have
>given her space, and it has been to the detriment of his
>children i'm sad to say. The kids should not be used as pawns
>in her game of revenge. If she was willing to be an adult in
>regards to the children not being subjected to her rage and
>bad-mouthing of the two of us, I would have no problem with
>much of what jade is suggesting. I understand his wife's anger
>towards me, and I don't want to rub it in her face. But how
>can they adjust later on if all this continues indefinitely.
>
>As for me leaving the home when he has his children, that
>can't happen as it is my home, and I have 3 children of my
>own. So, I don't know how he would be able to spend quality
>time with his kids long term.?


It wouldn't be long-term.  It would be while the divorce is being worked out and the children are getting the time they need to heal and adjust.  

Does he have a friend that he can stay with when he has the kids?  

[Jade]

>I don't agree.
>
>Honestly, not all situations are black and white as you would
>like them to be, Jade.  This woman has been a friend of the
>family for years and for her to just "disappear" could
>possibly cause other bad effects for those kids whose world is
>already breaking up.
>
>No one, not mom, not dad, not the judge, not the girlfriend -
>no one can say how this will turn out.  But ALL children need
>as many people as they can get who love them unconditionally,
>especially when they're going through crap like this.
>
>If mom shuts the hell up about badmouthing the girlfriend, the
>kids will probably be able to deal with it much better as they
>won't see the girlfriend as a bad person or a "problem".
>Having divorced parents is normal now.  Not that it's good or
>that it's necessarily right, but it IS normal - and kids
>can deal with it and adjust quite well with few (if
>any) ill effects.
>
>Mom needs to learn what is appropriate to say to her kids and
>what isn't.  What is best for the kids is for the grown-ups to
>be grown-up instead of behaving like nasty, hurtful teenagers
>trying to get back at their ex and not caring who else they
>hurt as long as the ex is hurt as badly as possible.  That is
>severe emotional abuse to her kids - period.
>
>
>[em]Lucky
>
>Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family
>parrot to the town gossip.
>- Will Rogers[em]

But their father wasn't living with her.  Now he is.  That must be very confusing to them.  And it is hurting them.  

Again, I didn't say that what the mother was doing is right.  But I do agree with her not wanting the other woman around her children at this point.  The children NEED time to heal and adjust to their parents not being together.  They don't need to adjust to their father living with the other woman at the same time.  

[mistoffolees]

>But their father wasn't living with her.  Now he is.  That
>must be very confusing to them.  And it is hurting them.  

How do you know that?

>
>Again, I didn't say that what the mother was doing is right.
>But I do agree with her not wanting the other woman around her
>children at this point.  The children NEED time to heal and
>adjust to their parents not being together.  They don't need
>to adjust to their father living with the other woman at the
>same time.  

Sorry to break it to you, but parents find new loves and remarry all the time. Is that confusing to the kids, too?

In this case, you have a long-term friend of the family who has been in the kids' lives for years - even before the divorce. It's not obvious to me how you can arbitrarily determine that yanking her out of the picture is better for the kids than leaving things the way they are.

There are too many parameters and it's impossible to say from a distance. But it IS clear that one can make an argument for both sides, so it's not all black and while as you insist.

Personally, I like the fact that many (most?) judges restrict overnight guests of the other sex after a divorce. But in this case where a precedent has already been established, that might cause more harm than good. None of us are in a position to decide that.

My own recommendation would be to ask for a custody evaluation and/or mediation so that the parents can agree (with some outside help) on what's best for the kids.

[escape2paradise]

I agree with Jade on this one.  There is plenty of time for the kids to be around the new love once they have had a little time to adjust to their dad being gone.  Right now they need the undivided attention of their father.  The don't need to have to deal with him having another family.  I don't think this is asking too much.  Is it inconvenient, yes.  Too BAD!  Should have thought about that before.  If that means no overnights than so be it.  The kids need to come first.  I'm soooo tired of adults being all about themselves with "the kids will adjust" attitude.  RIDICULOUS!!!  Thank goodness I've never been in this situation, but if I was and regardless of which side I was on.  I would not want my kids to have to deal with a third party!  Think about the kids people!

[mistoffolees]

>Think about the kids people!

I AM thinking about the kids and still believe that it's not as black and white as you're making it. A lot depends on the circumstances which we don't have here.

[cher bear]

  I think a few people are taking this on a personal level and mistaking what i'm saying in the process..I understand if you think the whole situation is wrong. I'm not trying to dispute that at all. And I'm not trying to force myself into the kids' lives right now. They wouldn't even know about the relationship between he and i if not for the things she has told them. My problem is with the things she is telling them, specifically.,..I couldn't agree more that they don't need to be dealing with it right now, on top of everything else..and I couldn't agree more that they need the undivided attention of their father, which she is denying them by playing games and jerking him and the kids around. There was another incidence of this just last night. It is not getting any better. I am doing nothing if not thinking about the kids' needs first. I love them and it hurts me terribly to see them used by her as a means of getting back at him. I don't think she realizes the damage she is inflicting on them. The only reason I would feel compelled to be around them at this point, is because she is going to such extreme lengths to poison them against me and try to ruin any future relationship between them and I. I am speaking out of frustration.

I am not being catty or trying to hurt her more. I said nothing when she confronted me and wished me dead, raped, beaten..said she would not be happy until I died..spread lies and rumors throughout the neighborhood, our childrens' school, his family..called me a whore in public and phone messages repeatedly, in front of her children and mine..called my daughters future whores at least 4 times..you get the idea i'm sure. I do my best just to avoid her completely. I have said nothing because I know we have damaged her and she is acting out of hurt and anger. But enough is enough. We just want it over, and we want what's fair and best for the kids.

jade..at the risk of repeating myself, once again I have no problem stepping back until the divorce is over and the kids decide on their own that they are comfortable being around me (their decision, without her controlling their thoughts and feelings). She wants to make it a long term or permanent thing, as in after the divorce is final. I don't think she should have the power to decide that.

[Jade]

>>But their father wasn't living with her.  Now he is.  That
>>must be very confusing to them.  And it is hurting them.  
>
>How do you know that?
>
>>
>>Again, I didn't say that what the mother was doing is right.
>
>>But I do agree with her not wanting the other woman around
>her
>>children at this point.  The children NEED time to heal and
>>adjust to their parents not being together.  They don't need
>>to adjust to their father living with the other woman at the
>>same time.  
>
>Sorry to break it to you, but parents find new loves and
>remarry all the time. Is that confusing to the kids, too?
>
>In this case, you have a long-term friend of the family who
>has been in the kids' lives for years - even before the
>divorce. It's not obvious to me how you can arbitrarily
>determine that yanking her out of the picture is better for
>the kids than leaving things the way they are.
>
>There are too many parameters and it's impossible to say from
>a distance. But it IS clear that one can make an argument for
>both sides, so it's not all black and while as you insist.
>
>Personally, I like the fact that many (most?) judges restrict
>overnight guests of the other sex after a divorce. But in this
>case where a precedent has already been established, that
>might cause more harm than good. None of us are in a position
>to decide that.
>
>My own recommendation would be to ask for a custody evaluation
>and/or mediation so that the parents can agree (with some
>outside help) on what's best for the kids.

So, Mistofflee,  you are saying that the children should  be allowed to stay with their overnight even if he has a member of the opposite sex residing there?

If so, how do you reconcile what you said in another thread about agreeing to there being a clause in the divorce about no overnight guests?  Or does that just apply to the mom and not the dad?

[Jade]

>  I think a few people are taking this on a personal level
>and mistaking what i'm saying in the process..I understand if
>you think the whole situation is wrong. I'm not trying to
>dispute that at all. And I'm not trying to force myself into
>the kids' lives right now. They wouldn't even know about the
>relationship between he and i if not for the things she has
>told them. My problem is with the things she is telling them,
>specifically.,..I couldn't agree more that they don't need to
>be dealing with it right now, on top of everything else..and I
>couldn't agree more that they need the undivided attention of
>their father, which she is denying them by playing games and
>jerking him and the kids around. There was another incidence
>of this just last night. It is not getting any better. I am
>doing nothing if not thinking about the kids' needs first. I
>love them and it hurts me terribly to see them used by her as
>a means of getting back at him. I don't think she realizes the
>damage she is inflicting on them. The only reason I would feel
>compelled to be around them at this point, is because she is
>going to such extreme lengths to poison them against me and
>try to ruin any future relationship between them and I. I am
>speaking out of frustration.
>
>I am not being catty or trying to hurt her more. I said
>nothing when she confronted me and wished me dead, raped,
>beaten..said she would not be happy until I died..spread lies
>and rumors throughout the neighborhood, our childrens' school,
>his family..called me a whore in public and phone messages
>repeatedly, in front of her children and mine..called my
>daughters future whores at least 4 times..you get the idea i'm
>sure. I do my best just to avoid her completely. I have said
>nothing because I know we have damaged her and she is acting
>out of hurt and anger. But enough is enough. We just want it
>over, and we want what's fair and best for the kids.
>
>jade..at the risk of repeating myself, once again I have no
>problem stepping back until the divorce is over and the kids
>decide on their own that they are comfortable being around me
>(their decision, without her controlling their thoughts and
>feelings). She wants to make it a long term or permanent
>thing, as in after the divorce is final. I don't think she
>should have the power to decide that.


I want to make it clear that I think that what the mother is doing is very wrong.  She is acting out in hurt and anger and putting the children in the middle.  And that is not good for them, either.  

Unfortunately, the damage is done.  My suggestion to you is to not even be around the mother at this point.  It will not help at all.  And the father does need to get specific times set up.

And I don't think a judge will order it long-term.  Nor do I think you not being around them should become permanent.  And I am sorry if I gave that impression.